The arms race between BLM and SMN

[Miminming]

You guys compare optimal rdps while considering dead dps ... Hmmm

[PyurBlue]

I don't want to see BLM buffed at all. It's fine. If it becomes overtuned then balance only gets worse. We know SMN is too strong now, and it was too weak before. We have boundary to try to remain within.

Well, that's a very silly stance for them to have. It's not like people raise from K.O. without weakness. After so many downs, you're just going to hit the fight's enrage. Hardly a great utility to call for a class's damage to be neutered.

It's worth a lot when a death means a failed mechanic and wipe.

[Kokonji]

Oh don't you worry...
just like previous expansion,
we SMN get a beefy buff at the start of expansion
and most lilkely will got some of the skills nerfed everytime patch come (kinda)

[linay]

Basically, the dead DPS do 0 DPS is a terrible argument.

Not when you're able to raise enough people in a short amount of time to meet a DPS check, even with weakness.

[Esmoire]

It's getting to the point I almost want them to drop Raise entirely from the Casters, thus allowing Summoner and Red Mage to simply be the Caster equivalent to Monk and Dragoon. They just can't seem to balance around it.

Stuff like this honestly feels like it is further damaging the jobs to appease a minority of the playerbase for a minority of the content. For a lot of people, we like playing RDM when we hop into pugs or we go into notorious monsters or new raids because we like being able to support our healers while still being competent damage dealers. Meter maids can go play something else.

[JunseiKei]

It's worth a lot when a death means a failed mechanic and wipe.

Not when you're able to raise enough people in a short amount of time to meet a DPS check, even with weakness.

It is not worth neutering a job's DPS solely because they can raise. It's not a utility like trick attack. It's a tool to correct mistakes. You're just telling me why Raise is handy, which I don't disagree with. You're not telling me anything that justifies the damage difference between a RDM and SMN/BLM.

[linay]

It is not worth neutering a job's DPS solely because they can raise. It's not a utility like trick attack. It's a tool to correct mistakes. You're just telling me why Raise is handy, which I don't disagree with. You're not telling me anything that justifies the damage difference between a RDM and SMN/BLM.

It's not my job to justify the difference to you. All I'm saying is that raise is still a utility, and if that's their justification for its lower DPS, then it is what it is.

In terms of balance, as long as a Red Mage can clear any content with any (standard) party within a reasonable amount of time and effort, then that's good enough for me, though I would not object to raising any job's DPS.

[PyurBlue]

It is not worth neutering a job's DPS solely because they can raise. It's not a utility like trick attack. It's a tool to correct mistakes. You're just telling me why Raise is handy, which I don't disagree with. You're not telling me anything that justifies the damage difference between a RDM and SMN/BLM.

It's about clear chance. BLM increases it by making the DPS check easier to meet. SMN increases it by making mistakes less terminal. There needs to be a tradeoff or SMN is better in all situations. However since the likelihood of deaths goes down with player skill, the gap shouldn't be huge.

[ForteNightshade]

Stuff like this honestly feels like it is further damaging the jobs to appease a minority of the playerbase for a minority of the content. For a lot of people, we like playing RDM when we hop into pugs or we go into notorious monsters or new raids because we like being able to support our healers while still being competent damage dealers. Meter maids can go play something else.

This is a pretty massive assumption, especially considering how frequently you see Red Mages refuse to Raise at all. A lot of people simply don't care about Verraise as it isn't what appealed to them about the job nor is it really a big staple. It is, however, causing a huge imbalancing issue they have yet to fix.

[Esmoire]

This is a pretty massive assumption, especially considering how frequently you see Red Mages refuse to Raise at all. A lot of people simply don't care about Verraise as it isn't what appealed to them about the job nor is it really a big staple. It is, however, causing a huge imbalancing issue they have yet to fix.

Excuse me but where is the assumption in my message? I said for a lot of people, we like playing RDM for this feature. A lot, as in, a reasonable amount. Tell me what is massive here or what can be concretely located as an assumption in a cognitively incongruous idea like "a lot"? I can say a reasonable amount with my experiences playing the game, and you can use anecdotal accounts on how you feel the number is not enough to merit what I feel is "a lot", but no matter how you really try to curtail this to make this sound like a response of any substance to try make a case of the contrary I'm not seeing it.

Edit - Like, I guess the assumption could be that a minority of players would want this change? I guess that's fair but I don't think that is massive by any stretch.