5.0 Dark knight request: Delirium rework

[Shurrikhan]

I'm thinking, maybe, replace with a continuation like oGCD that works with blood-based skills?

Would be nice enough for DRK on the 68-80 road, but comes into its own when you get the shadow, as additional effects from skills the shadow uses still trigger for the player that would mean you can 'drk continuation' from your doppelganger using bloodspiller and quietus.

My main immediate issue with this is that it's borrowing a GNB skill, and I'd kind of like to discourage just loading as many bloodspillers as possible into the shadow.

Edit: or just bring back Scourge lol, people love Scourge.

There's a very simple concept I've kind of taken a liking to. It could be basically called "Bare Blade - Black Blade - Red Blade", I guess? Basically, your normal combo would be Hard - Syphon - (the old Delirium animation), during Blood Blade it would be Hard - Scourge - Soul Eater, and during Darkside it would be Hard - Spinning (renamed) - Power Slash (renamed), ideally with freer combo variants during the latter two and flexible swapping into the alternate systems. Now, that in itself is essentially just reskinning, but if one could make a compelling system out of Shadow and Blood resources (perhaps combining into Black Blood later on)... that could get pretty neat.

[Payotz]

There's two ideas that I've been thinking about for Delirium.

Delirium as a cooldown.
- DRK casts Delerium, absorbing the first damage instance that DRK takes. DRK is given a buff called Nemesis. During Nemesis, DRK will have a 10% damage buff for 15 seconds. After 15 seconds, if DRK did no damage, he will take the full damage Delirium has absorbed. Dealing damage will reduce the damage Delirium will deal after 15 seconds.
- Example
1. DRK casts Delerium. DRK takes 15k damage.
2. DRK gets Nemesis. DRK deals 8k damage.
3. DRK receives 7k damage. (15k - 8k)

Delirium as a component of TBN.
1. When TBN shield breaks, DRK will gain a charge of Nemesis and said charge will absorb the damage received by TBN.
2. Each charge of Nemesis will also give DRK a 0.1% vuln up.
3. DRK can cast Delerium whnever DRK has at least one charge of Nemesis.
4. Upon casting Delirium, DRK will deal ddamage equal to total damage received by TBN, added by x% (x = how many Nemesis charges DRK has) of total damage.

Example:
1. DRK breaks TBN 8 times. Each instance deals 2k damage. Total damage received via TBN is 16k.
2. DRK now has a 0.8% vuln up debuff.
3. Upon casting Delirium, DRK deals 17280 total damage. [16000 + 1280 (8% of 16k)]

[shao32]

Delirium as a "save skill" button. When five GCDs are saved the button changes to Living Shadow.

When activated the Living Shadow will burst out and use the saved skills in order. Skills don't cost you resources, but will gain them for you if the skill it uses would. i.e if you saved a soul eater, when the shadow uses it you'll gain blood and HP.

That seems like it could be fun to me, would give you some stuff to think about, and it isn't copied from another job.

Ability costs, amount of GCDs required, potencies, etc. might need adjusting. This is just a basic frame of an idea

sounds nice, the problem will be you will want to "fill" the shadow with bloodspillers for optimal results so the shadow will be the BS spam fest at the end except i missed something.

There's two ideas that I've been thinking about for Delirium.

Delirium as a cooldown.
- DRK casts Delerium, absorbing the first damage instance that DRK takes. DRK is given a buff called Nemesis. During Nemesis, DRK will have a 10% damage buff for 15 seconds. After 15 seconds, if DRK did no damage, he will take the full damage Delirium has absorbed. Dealing damage will reduce the damage Delirium will deal after 15 seconds.
- Example
1. DRK casts Delerium. DRK takes 15k damage.
2. DRK gets Nemesis. DRK deals 8k damage.
3. DRK receives 7k damage. (15k - 8k)

Delirium as a component of TBN.
1. When TBN shield breaks, DRK will gain a charge of Nemesis and said charge will absorb the damage received by TBN.
2. Each charge of Nemesis will also give DRK a 0.1% vuln up.
3. DRK can cast Delerium whnever DRK has at least one charge of Nemesis.
4. Upon casting Delirium, DRK will deal ddamage equal to total damage received by TBN, added by x% (x = how many Nemesis charges DRK has) of total damage.

Example:
1. DRK breaks TBN 8 times. Each instance deals 2k damage. Total damage received via TBN is 16k.
2. DRK now has a 0.8% vuln up debuff.
3. Upon casting Delirium, DRK deals 17280 total damage. [16000 + 1280 (8% of 16k)]

sounds interesting but it have a small problem, both versions will lock DRK on the MT spot to enjoy those juicy dps buffs to archive his optimal dps so i don't see it working saddly, but overall interesting conceps, i like the first one more as a small defensive buff to pair with the mains ones without the dps buff but even that seems hard to make it work.

[Jandor]

sounds nice, the problem will be you will want to "fill" the shadow with bloodspillers for optimal results so the shadow will be the BS spam fest at the end except i missed something.

No, you're right. As it stands the optimal result would be to load it up with bloodspillers.

I've been trying to think of a solution that doesn't over-complicate things, best I've come up with so far though is reducing the delirium/living shadow cooldown so that you literally can't generate enough blood to save 5x BS into it before it's off cooldown.
I think a shorter cooldown can be justified, the duration of my delirious living shadow is only 5 GCDs after all, and only a few of those GCD would be your hardest hitting skill.

That's a very brute force solution though. Ideally I'd like a system that creates a compelling choice, with reasons to load different skills into it depending on circumstances, but I'm also trying to keep it straightforward enough that it doesn't require another full DRK rebuild.

[DRKoftheAzure]

So you admit people should be doing damage, and doing more damage is beneficial to everyone, but because you'd rather spend 3k MP on an E/FoS instead of TBN to spite healer damage, and that you feel healers need nerfed to do less damage, you arent even being consistent in your own logic?

Someone didn't get the joke...

[WhyAmIHere]

Someone didn't get the joke...

poor deflection.


Anyways. Delirium is honestly in just such a bad place design-wise that i doubt SE could come up with any method to make it appealing to the playerbase that isn't just some other effect WAR/DRK already has. it alreaduy generates MP via BS usage. Cant make it also generate blood. Cant make it DCrit without making it an outright clone of IR.

[shao32]

Anyways. Delirium is honestly in just such a bad place design-wise that i doubt SE could come up with any method to make it appealing to the playerbase that isn't just some other effect WAR/DRK already has. it alreaduy generates MP via BS usage. Cant make it also generate blood. Cant make it DCrit without making it an outright clone of IR.

i personaly consider they should turn back with his desing, the SB version of delirium was fine and was much much more better designed and fun that this version (same with bloodweapon), if they just want to make it more impactfull they just should reduce the blood cost so DRK wouln't be everything brainless 50 blood cost, but thats my personal preference.

[WhyAmIHere]

i personaly consider they should turn back with his desing, the SB version of delirium was fine and was much much more better designed and fun that this version (same with bloodweapon), if they just want to make it more impactfull they just should reduce the blood cost so DRK wouln't be everything brainless 50 blood cost, but thats my personal preference.

Returning it to SB's design means a complete reversal to the ShB iteration of DRK. Everything ShB DRK is revolved around ShB Blood Weapon, and ShB Delirium, and ShB mana regeneration in combat.
A redesign of that scale will 100% not happen in 5.x. Full stop.

[shao32]

Returning it to SB's design means a complete reversal to the ShB iteration of DRK. Everything ShB DRK is revolved around ShB Blood Weapon, and ShB Delirium, and ShB mana regeneration in combat.
A redesign of that scale will 100% not happen in 5.x. Full stop.

Current desing it's just SB gutted and filled the gap with moar BS, nothing more, returning to old bloodweapon/delirium is more easy that you think, just only need ajust the MP gain per hit if we keep it GCD only and the dps could be easily balanced by buffing/nerfing the oGCD on special edge potency, it's even more cheap to made that compared to the WAR redesign on 4.2 or the NIN rework on 5.1

[Satarn]

Current desing it's just SB gutted and filled the gap with moar BS

It's kinda funny how a similar thing was an issue with SB DRK - they removed parry procs, Darkside drain, single target Passenger and filled the apm gap with "moar Dark Arts". Although SB at least had the decency to introduce some new mechanics through second resource interacting with MP and TBN, while SHB added... a fancy dot on 2 minute cd.

Inb4 6.0 DRK removes Bloodspiller because "too much BS spam" and all we're left with is gonna be 123 combo and Edge of Shadow. De-evolution at its finest.