Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[Edax]

I think one of the characters notes that Zenos is basically an Ascian, now. He's achieved command of the Echo (Resonance, in his case) that no previous mortal has (at least, not without Ascian assistance) - but that Elidibus himself once said (to Minfillia) we'd be capable of if only we understood its true potential.

At least, that's the angle I think the writers are gunning for. Zenos is now essentially a self-ascended Ascian, and can do anything an Ascian can do, including bamf his mortal shell around as he pleases.

But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

[Crushnight]

But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

Pride and arrogance, something of a staple of the Ascians, Zenos just doesn't care about anything but us, if he finds the battle boring he either kills or leaves.

[QT_Melon]

But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

Ascians are a long living remnant of their old world, there's a certain point where flight isn't gonna work and they will eventually put their foot down in an all or nothing since to them, it's also about the survival of their species (as a whole - since they see the current state as broken pieces) and at this point and mentioned by Lahabrea that they feel that the new existence is warping beyond recognition.

[Edax]

Ascians are a long living remnant of their old world, there's a certain point where flight isn't gonna work and they will eventually put their foot down in an all or nothing since to them, it's also about the survival of their species (as a whole - since they see the current state as broken pieces) and at this point and mentioned by Lahabrea that they feel that the new existence is warping beyond recognition.

At no instance I can think of that any of the confrontations with the Ascians required them risking their entire species and their plan for a fight to the death. If Emet-Selch had bugged out of the First without ever confronting the Warrior of Darkness towards the end, his plan would have succeeded and a new Sin Eater would be finishing off the First. Emet putting his foot down jeopardized the survival of his species.

[QT_Melon]

At no instance I can think of that any of the confrontations with the Ascians required them risking their entire species and their plan for a fight to the death. If Emet-Selch had bugged out of the First without ever confronting the Warrior of Darkness towards the end, his plan would have succeeded and a new Sin Eater would be finishing off the First. Emet putting his foot down jeopardized the survival of his species.

Fight or flight isn't about logic at that point, it's a instinctual response to danger. Even Emet was considered the most emotional of them all and was in a depression sleep for years. He wasn't exactly at the top of his game even if he was pretty damn good at it years ago.

[Crushnight]

At no instance I can think of that any of the confrontations with the Ascians required them risking their entire species and their plan for a fight to the death. If Emet-Selch had bugged out of the First without ever confronting the Warrior of Darkness towards the end, his plan would have succeeded and a new Sin Eater would be finishing off the First. Emet putting his foot down jeopardized the survival of his species.

If he had fled, then we may have tried to follow and if we went to the Source while about to turn into the most powerful Sin Eater, oopsie may have just doomed the Source to a imbalance of Light that couldn't be corrected dooming their entire plans permanently. Emet needed us to remain on the First at all costs or the 1st wouldn't be ready to be rejoined via Light anymore, and with us having free reign to teleport between them any future plan they try to do could be interrupted by us. Emet made a stand because he had to for the rejoining to take place, his decision to just let us kill the Lightwardens, was the decision that doomed him down the path of needing to fight us, had he fought us then and there at the Crysterium we would have died.

[Edax]

If he had fled, then we may have tried to follow and if we went to the Source while about to turn into the most powerful Sin Eater, oopsie may have just doomed the Source to a imbalance of Light that couldn't be corrected dooming their entire plans permanently. Emet needed us to remain on the First at all costs or the 1st wouldn't be ready to be rejoined via Light anymore, and with us having free reign to teleport between them any future plan they try to do could be interrupted by us. Emet made a stand because he had to for the rejoining to take place, his decision to just let us kill the Lightwardens, was the decision that doomed him down the path of needing to fight us, had he fought us then and there at the Crysterium we would have died.

We can only go from the First and the Source. He can go to any remaining world he pleases which puts him out of our reach. While the Warrior of Darkness can go to the Source and jeopardize the world, I'm not sure the Scions or WoD would ever willingly make that choice.

[LineageRazor]

We can only go from the First and the Source. He can go to any remaining world he pleases which puts him out of our reach. While the Warrior of Darkness can go to the Source and jeopardize the world, I'm not sure the Scions or WoD would ever willingly make that choice.

I don't think Emet knows the WoL well enough to trust them not to do something as foolish as to go to the Source while brimming with Sin Eater energy.

Plus, I didn't get the feeling that at any point during the fight with Emet did he seriously consider the possibility that we could actually beat him, on his (reconstructed) home turf, and at the peak of his power. At least, up until Ardbert did his merger and we hit Emet with the Axe of Light. Exemplar among mortals we might be - and seven (eight) times rejoined, at that - but we're still just a mortal. Again, Ascian overconfidence.

He had another reason to stick around on the First, as well: G'raha Tia. It's not clear he had any method for taking G'raha with him if he left (all the instances we've seen in which an Ascian transports someone between worlds, it's been voluntary on the part of the one being transported), and he wanted to plumb his mind for his secrets of time travel.

So, he had several reasons to stay on the First, and considered the risks of doing so to be quite low.

The question remains as to why he didn't bamf on out of there when it was CLEAR he was overmatched - say, the moment when we were actively charging him with the Axe of Light. At that point, there's any number of handwaves available: he was too drained from the fight, or he was reeling in shock from the glimpse of the Ancient within us, or the bamf process requires some kind of preparation, or merely the presence of so much concentrated Light power was restricting the use of his Darkness power.

In short, given what we know of Ascians, of Emet, and of the situation at hand, it's not at all surprising that he would have gone for the two in the bush (G'raha's knowledge AND WoL-turned-Sin-Eater) rather than the one in the hand, even given the (in his mind ridiculously slim) chance of disaster. When disaster struck anyway, there's any number of explanations as to why it was too late to do anything about it.

[Edax]

I don't think Emet knows the WoL well enough to trust them not to do something as foolish as to go to the Source while brimming with Sin Eater energy.

Plus, I didn't get the feeling that at any point during the fight with Emet did he seriously consider the possibility that we could actually beat him, on his (reconstructed) home turf, and at the peak of his power. At least, up until Ardbert did his merger and we hit Emet with the Axe of Light. Exemplar among mortals we might be - and seven (eight) times rejoined, at that - but we're still just a mortal. Again, Ascian overconfidence.


The question remains as to why he didn't bamf on out of there when it was CLEAR he was overmatched - say, the moment when we were actively charging him with the Axe of Light. At that point, there's any number of handwaves available: he was too drained from the fight, or he was reeling in shock from the glimpse of the Ancient within us, or the bamf process requires some kind of preparation, or merely the presence of so much concentrated Light power was restricting the use of his Darkness power.

In short, given what we know of Ascians, of Emet, and of the situation at hand, it's not at all surprising that he would have gone for the two in the bush (G'raha's knowledge AND WoL-turned-Sin-Eater) rather than the one in the hand, even given the (in his mind ridiculously slim) chance of disaster. When disaster struck anyway, there's any number of explanations as to why it was too late to do anything about it.

The problem with this theory is that the WoL has already defeated several Ascians, including Emet's fellow veteran of the Sundering: Lahabrea. Mortal the Warrior of Darkness may be, they've already racked up an Ascian kill count and fellow mortal Gaius racked an even larger count. There's little reason to think Emet wouldn't truly regard the Warrior of Darkness as an extreme threat. Perhaps Emet made it personal because they were friends in a different life but tactically there's little reason for Emet to personally confront an Ascian slayer while also assuming their no threat. Hades is all about remembering the dead right? Lahabrea's death should constantly be in his mind.

[Jandor]

But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

While Ascians do disappear in a puff of smoke all the time, I can't recall any of them doing it during or immediately after a proper fight. Presumably chucking a lot of magic around disables that particular power for a while.

I guess Zenos was still able to do it because, well he didn't look like he was putting in a great deal of effort to be honest, refers to Gaius and Estinien as "the most middling of sport" or something like that.