Seeds of 7.0 and on?

[fay2]

It took half of the surviving Amarotines to create Zodiark

No it wasn't half, but you are right I've understated the amount of Amarotines that volunteered themselves in the creation of Zoidark as 1/3 not the almost half stated by Hythlodaeus

( I'm honestly not sure where 1/3 comes from maybe something said by Emet, ultimately unimportant )

Increasing the amount of creation energy use in Zoidarks creation only emphases' the disparity in the creation energy put forward for "the will to a star" between Zoidark and Hydealyn.

how about a visualization in a pie cart

and make him stop the calamity. Which means that they were already used not only for creation but for actions. They told us that he had to rewrite reality to stop it too.

Considering we don't know the laws of reality prior to Zoidark rewriting them. I'd call that speculation too.

For example Zoidarks rewrite of reality may have been to make the Lifestream and used creation/life energy didn't return to planet prior to the rewrite it just returned to the user or just became a blob or some such. So its possible Zoidark maintained the creation/life energy as a hole offered up in creation.

But afterwards when the dust settled they noticed that the world was kinda death so they needed another half of the remaining ones to change that.

Those lives may have became "fuel" for the Lifestream to flow in the new rewritten reality.

Hydealyn was seemingly only getting sacrifices from the ones that summoned her and if the rewritten reality just needed something there to control it, then I dont see a problem here.

That seems counterintuitive to me honestly.

Her power is less but with sundering Zodiark she made that even. And since the laws and everything were already changed she may just have needed to take over the place without any more power at all.

again the murals are ignored

[Alleo]

No it wasn't half, but you are right I've understated the amount of Amarotines that volunteered themselves in the creation of Zoidark as 1/3 not the almost half stated by Hythlodaeus

I am confused? The screenshots you are posting are exactly saying what I was saying?

Nearly half of the surviving ones gave their life to create Zodiark and he managed to stop the calamity. But they realized that the planet was kinda death and another half of those that are still alive then gave their life. So 75% of those that survived the initial attack gave their lifes. I mean Hythlo states in his very sentence that Zodiark after being summoned was able to stop the stuff from happening -> taking action.

So 25% of those survived and the solution to sacrifice new life divided the survivors and thus Hydaeyln was only born from <25% of the souls. This is already way less than what Zodiark got and we simply dont know how many took Hydealyn side and how many took Zodiarks side. But it was at least a lot less than what they got with Zodiark. And if we assume that its 50/50, thus 12.5% and somehow all of them sacrificied themselves to summon Hydealyn then it would still be out of balance in power scale. Because she would have still just gotten 12.5% while Zodiark at that time held the power of 75% in him. This in turn would make it quite logical why she then smashed him to pieces instead of outright killing him. Because if they were somehow equal in power (which means that Zodiark lost the power thus also the souls...which makes getting them back kinda impossible anyway) then why not just kill him?

The murals are drawn afterwards. We dont know who did it but I doubt that this was drawn directly at the time when the world was still whole. I mean if those were really fighting then why would someone take the time to draw a cave painting? Would Ancient ones go down to such a state that they would draw such a thing in a cave? This honestly feels more like people after the sundering who either remembered the events still or got told about it. We simply dont know how accurate it is.

[fay2]

The screenshots you are posting are exactly saying what I was saying?

No. You've amended it to "Nearly half" in the last post by you so now yes, but "Nearly half" dose not equal "half" you posted in the 1st.

I am confused?

Yes. A little here is why. i'll bold it for your post.

Nearly half of the surviving ones gave their life to create Zodiark and he managed to stop the calamity. But they realized that the planet was kinda death and another half of those that are still alive then gave their life. So 75% of those that survived the initial attack gave their lifes. I mean Hythlo states in his very sentence that Zodiark after being summoned was able to stop the stuff from happening -> taking action.

So 25% of those survived and the solution to sacrifice new life divided the survivors

removing the 25% for "new life" from the total of 75% you stated you get 50%

50% = Half
Half is not Nearly half
(Semantics unimportant)

So on to something more interesting speculating the creation energy/life force use in Hydaeyln's creation.

and thus Hydaeyln was only born from <25% of the souls. This is already way less than what Zodiark got and we simply dont know how many took Hydealyn side and how many took Zodiarks side. But it was at least a lot less than what they got with Zodiark. And if we assume that its 50/50, thus 12.5% and somehow all of them sacrificied themselves to summon Hydealyn then it would still be out of balance in power scale.

I'd speculate the member that left the Convocation of Fourteen represents the portion of the of Amarotines that created Hydealyn.

So 1/14th of the total surviving Amarotines or in percentages roughly 7.143%

7.1% +/-
Plus or Minus, because they may have moved others to their cause or some may have been move to volunteer to bring new life to the planet.
All honesty tho I'd say 7.1% + more likely to have more people with buyers remorse over Zoidark.

Because she would have still just gotten 12.5% while Zodiark at that time held the power of 75% in him. This in turn would make it quite logical why she then smashed him to pieces instead of outright killing him.

That is if see them as needing to be to separate beings that fort, and not an amendment in some way and the fighting being figurative for the amendment taking control against protections in original creation to prevent alterations in core concept.

Because if they were somehow equal in power (which means that Zodiark lost the power thus also the souls...which makes getting them back kinda impossible anyway) then why not just kill him?

Something fundamental in Hydealyn's concept?
by accounts of the Unbroken. Zoidark is dead. What dose death mater to Ascians way of thinking?

going back to this

Because if they were somehow equal in power?

was thinking about this

Zoidarks rewrite of reality may have been to make the Lifestream

Now to heap on a bit more speculation on it.
If Hydealyn's concept was to rewrite Zoidarks control of the Lifestream to something under Hydealyn then you may lessen the disparity between the two.

The murals are drawn afterwards. We dont know who did it but I doubt that this was drawn directly at the time when the world was still whole.

Yes I Agree its an account of what happened so it would have to be painted on the 1st after the sundering. It is unlikely you'll find the exact replica on the other shards unless they where created by the unbroken or some other shard hoper.
It is more likely we may find on another shard a similar set of depictions but with a slightly different story that could be interpreted from them and seeing both may give a fuller picture of what the story they depict.

I mean if those were really fighting then why would someone take the time to draw a cave painting?

That was where I was going with this

if Zoidark and Hydaeyln are fighting why would the 3 unbroken leave the effected sundered area they must have left before the "conflict" between the two arose.

Would Ancient ones go down to such a state that they would draw such a thing in a cave?

Why dose any artist choose the medium they work in?

This honestly feels more like people after the sundering who either remembered the events still or got told about it. We simply dont know how accurate it is.

Yes more so what we were told it depicts should be treated as suspect . However that dose not dismiss it.

[MrThinker]

50% = Half
Half is not Nearly half

As a rebuttal, the phrase 'nearly half' I, and a lot of people I know, use generally to say "it's not exactly half, but its close enough to half that you can use 50% for an approximate amount to calculate stuff with, and if anyone disagrees they're thinking too much into it". Not to say that it is 100% the meaning many others may intend when they use the phrase, but it's what I have experienced generally speaking.

As an extra note regarding the power levels of Zodiark and Hydaelyn, it was stated by one of the lore team (either Koji or Oda I don't remember) that Zodiark was indeed the more powerful one of the 2 before the Sundering.

Why does any artist choose the medium they work in?

I believe Emet-Selch implies that the people who made the murals were sundered Ancients who 'half-remembered' what they had gone through. Which also implies it happened after the Sundering.

[Linadae]

I believe Emet-Selch implies that the people who made the murals were sundered Ancients who 'half-remembered' what they had gone through. Which also implies it happened after the Sundering.

World lore from ARR confirms that there are fragments of Pre-Sundering memories floating around. From the names that Keepers of the Moon use (Most predate the Sundering) There was also talk of time before the Calamity where 'Gods walked Eorzea' but they fled before the First Umbral Era abandoning mortals to the Calamities. To a Sundered, Amaurotines would certainly look like gods in a fractured memory.

[Erendis]

There was also talk of time before the Calamity where 'Gods walked Eorzea' but they fled before the First Umbral Era abandoning mortals to the Calamities. To a Sundered, Amaurotines would certainly look like gods in a fractured memory.

A while ago someone here mentioned that unsundered Ascians spent some time with sundered people before resorting to calamities (I might have missed that part in msq since I do not recall it) so it would fit that lore part.

[fay2]

There was already a multi page debate about the Sundering/Murdering difference and unfortunately, because of people's mindsets there's no definite conclusion that what happened wasn't as bad even if technically not the same thing.

Thanks for the heads up.
last time it was time travel over dimensional travel.

As a rebuttal, the phrase 'nearly half' I, and a lot of people I know, use generally to say "it's not exactly half, but its close enough to half that you can use 50% for an approximate amount to calculate stuff with, and if anyone disagrees they're thinking too much into it". Not to say that it is 100% the meaning many others may intend when they use the phrase, but it's what I have experienced generally speaking.

As a rebuttal it's pretty clunky
Phrases are cultural. So differences in the use of a phase and meaning of a phrase will be found in different places of the world as well and different social groups.

example: Some people will say nearly half is 51% too

So the spirit of the phases meaning will be different to different people. Phases have a literal meaning in the words used too: Half, is 1/2 or 50%, and nearly, being very close to or almost.

Considering it moved to math in % then the literal meaning becomes the issue. Math is very literal.

This all arose from me understating the amount in my point to its detriment. However even with that disadvantage the spirit of the point still stands. Probably even stand stronger as a result of the under embellishment.

As an extra note regarding the power levels of Zodiark and Hydaelyn, it was stated by one of the lore team (either Koji or Oda I don't remember) that Zodiark was indeed the more powerful one of the 2 before the Sundering.

That's good point for any saying otherwise. I'm not. I was pointing out the huge swing in the scales between the two tipped to Zoidark.

If that is the power needed for a will of the star then was speculating answers why Hydaelyn was so little.

Zoidark's creation energy wasn't all in bring a will to the star.
◾hailing the calamity may have taken energy. However Zoidark's concept was to do that.
◾will to the star wasn't the entire concept, sighting excessive build in destructive power was to deter, defend, reprise external threats to the planet.

Hydaelyn being an amendment to Zoidark's will of the star fits too.
why have to competing wills of the same star?

When we first meet Hydealyn

Hydealyn's greeting state they are "all made one"

lol still have a full page to respond to >_< no time at the moment will post later or edit

[Erendis]

Phrases are cultural. So differences in the use of a phase and meaning of a phrase will be found in different places of the world as well and different social groups.

example: Some people will say nearly half is 51% too

So the spirit of the phases meaning will be different to different people. Phases have a literal meaning in the words used too: Half, is 1/2 or 50%, and nearly, being very close to or almost.

Considering it moved to math in % then the literal meaning becomes the issue. Math is very literal.

Yes it is just fine for you to claim that "nearly half" = 1/3 and "another half" = 1/3.

Yeah it seems liking to me that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are one in the same or some fashion like that. I mean it took 1/3 of the Amaurotians to make Zodiark another 1/3 to return life to the planet.

I am not sure I will be able to take anything you write seriously after this...

[MrThinker]

As a rebuttal it's pretty clunky
Phrases are cultural. So differences in the use of a phase and meaning of a phrase will be found in different places of the world as well and different social groups.

example: Some people will say nearly half is 51% too

So the spirit of the phases meaning will be different to different people. Phases have a literal meaning in the words used too: Half, is 1/2 or 50%, and nearly, being very close to or almost.

Considering it moved to math in % then the literal meaning becomes the issue. Math is very literal.

True, phrases are cultural, with different meanings in different places. But 'nearly' in of itself means the term described is comparable to the term 'nearly' is used with. In math, if it is said that 'x is nearly equal to y' then 'y' can be used as a valid substitution in any calculations involving 'x' as long as we remember that it is an approximation. In this case 'x' s the true amount of souls sacrificed for Zodiark, while 'y' is 50% of the survivors, and as such using 50% is a valid approximation.

And yes, 51% is close enough to 50% that using 50% would be a valid approximation in that case too.

[Alleo]

No. You've amended it to "Nearly half" in the last post by you so now yes, but "Nearly half" dose not equal "half" you posted in the 1st.

And in the next sentence Hythlo states "that another half sacrificed themselves" sounding to me that it was quite near half the people. Even in your pie chart its quite near the half. So I am not really sure why we are talking about semnatics here? Hythlo himself probably has not counted the amount of people either.

My whole point was that Hydealyn always had way less amount of aether to be reproduced which is why she needed to split him (and no that makes him not death). We only know that one member (which is probably the old us) went away. There is a high chance that the very same person did a part in summoning Hydealyn (and its the theory I follow) but for all we know they could have been against that too. There is also no ingame text saying that she needed more fuel afterwards and Elidibus mentions summoners as in more than one.

My whole answer to you was just because you said that the first sacrifice was only there to fuel him and the rest was for his actions. With Hythlo in your screenshots says that it has not happened. He already stopped the calamity with the first round of sacrifice.

Also it may be true that they are not there or it could simply be that Zodiark somehow sent them in the rift to save them when he noticed that he was losing. There are many possiblities here.

About the OP: The cloud in the sky could simply be the door where the meteorits came from. We know from the dungeon that the Ancient ones created their own nightmares and we see them spawn in just like Ascians spawn into the room. We also know that the sound came from the earth itself, it did not start from the sky. So this violett cloud could simply be created by the fears of a bunch of ancient ones that even the sky would turn against them.