No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[JohnSpawnVFX]

You're not 80%. You are 0.01%. I don't even remember the last time tank was sissy pulling and I run dungeons daily.

0.01% is incompatible with the existence of a "Tales of the Duty Finder" thread.

[RyuSaarva]

You're not 80%. You are 0.01%. I don't even remember the last time tank was sissy pulling and I run dungeons daily.

that greatly increased for me in shadowbringers, to me maybe like 20% of tanks do single pack pulls.

[Callinon]

0.01% is incompatible with the existence of a "Tales of the Duty Finder" thread.

Remember that forum posters make up a tiny portion of the overall playerbase, and an even smaller percentage of that small percentage post in that thread.

[LaylaTsarra]

I run tons of content with my main and many alts and on Aether and Crystal I can say that single wave pulls are very rare. Some will do two wave in Acadaemia but the majority will do 3. On Chocobo the single wave pulls were pretty common although that appears to be changing with many now pulling everything.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Remember that forum posters make up a tiny portion of the overall playerbase, and an even smaller percentage of that small percentage post in that thread.

My experiences and of everyone in-game I know seem to support this. And let's not get into the devs indirectly confirming it (easy mode for solo duties, classes having their DPS gap between proper play and failing positionals/combos reduced as time goes by, etc)

There's a huge difference between using forum population to extrapolate tendencies for the whole playerbase - "X people liked the Male Viera support thread so that means most of the playerbase supports it too" - and using that to dismiss forum posters experiences and testimonies. You're basically saying that forum posters are unreliable witnesses at best and liars at worst.

[John_Milter]

that greatly increased for me in shadowbringers, to me maybe like 20% of tanks do single pack pulls.

People don't actually hate this do they? Like most of the time when I start a dungeon i've never done before I pull a single pack to gauge what kind of damage they do because im leveling a tank and my gear is equal to the level of the dungeon. I haven't had this happen much, most of the time the healer looks at my gear and realizes why im not big dick pulling. Or the DPS looks at the healer's gear. but yeah on a experienced group theres kinda no reason to single pack pulls.

also when i realize the healer doesnt want to heal me because they are too busy blinding me with holy

[Driskus]

I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant here...

It irks me greatly when I'm in a dungeon duty and a tank is pulling multiple skirmishes at once, even as much as an entire leg of a dungeon. This is neither smart nor effective, especially if a healer cannot contribute to the damage dealing because (s)he is too busy trying to keep everybody alive and expending his/her entire MP pool in the process. It's even more irritating when I as a tank am being asked to pull more than one skirmish, and people start getting salty or even quitting because they don't like my pace.

WHM main here. I have not seen one instance since Shadowbringers where I haven't been able to put out any DPS during a big pull. Sure it happened every once in a while in Stormblood, but that was mostly tanks in level 50 gear pulling Bardam's wall-to-wall. It just wasn't going to work, though admittedly, it was always funny to see them get instagibbed by the wall mobs at the end.

If the healer's running out of MP now, with the min ilvls in leveling dungeons, either they or you are doing something wrong. I almost never go below 3-4k MP on big pulls, 90+% of the time I barely get to 7-8k. And when it comes down to raw DPS, would you rather I be hitting 1-3 mobs per GCD with Holy, or 10+?

IT'S NOT A RACE, PEOPLE!!! When you do a dungeon, you are committed to it for 90 minutes, and while it should never take nearly that long with a decent party, there's no need to attempt to blitz through it and risk a wipe, either. Stop trying to be a hero, and concentrate your attacks on one enemy at a time! I guarantee, they will go down a lot quicker individually, than if you try to take out 213128901 of them at once.

Most of the time we're just trying to make what is normally a boring slog more entertaining. Every single dungeon in the game is faceroll easy when you're running it potentially hundreds of times over the course of a couple years. Big pulls are rarely ever slower now, and in some instances, the dungeon was designed for multi-pack pulls (Arboretum Hard immeditely comes to mind, the section before the 2nd boss).

I literally almost fall asleep every time Swallow's Compass shows up in 70 roulette if the tank does small pulls. Nearly every tank slow pulls it, yet you can almost clear the whole place solo as a WHM while synced (and not just the trash either). Many of them are actually that easy. Its the one dungeon in the game where I won't hesitate to just pop Sprint, run like a madman and pull everything myself.

I do miss the old Brayflox HM speedruns. Those were fun times. People were like "OMG you need i90 gear gonna half pull!" I was at i83 avg. around that time, and had no issues with the monstrous full pulls back then. Every big pull we get to do nowadays is a joke compared to those. It ramped up what would have been a total snoozefest into a real challenge. And yeah, the "half" was about what most very big pulls are now.

[Halivel]

I could agree with some of arguments, but shouldn't it overall depend on circumstances?

If you as tank or your healer can't manage pig pulls, then sure you should not do them. If your party dps is too low, there isn't much sense in either since healer and tank can just end up getting out of MP and defensive CDs.

However, if party is okay and you aren't in leveling dungeon with 3 non-synced people in leveling armor, then I see literally zero issues with big pulls. Especially if you have casters, who are more effective with AoEs than anybody else (specifically Summoner with its shareable dot-skills).

[Aurida]

However, if party is okay and you aren't in leveling dungeon with 3 non-synced people in leveling armor, then I see literally zero issues with big pulls. Especially if you have casters, who are more effective with AoEs than anybody else (specifically Summoner with its shareable dot-skills).

Pretty much this yeah. Leveling dungeons aren't as vulnerable as level-cap dungeons to being outgeared and curbstomped, so for people who are learning their role or maybe not playing the best, it's not completely trivial. Assuming it's not a gear issue, you absolutely still should try, because AoE is so ignorantly powerful & it serves as a learning experience for those willing to learn how to leverage their tools more effectively.

But level-cap dungeons? If you're in one of those, you are by necessity at the level cap and should by all rights have had sufficient time with your job to learn the very basics you need to successfully tank or heal a standard double pull. Just read your tooltips and press your buttons. Maybe communicate a little to leverage cooldowns.

[TheForce]

snip

Another post that comes across as toxic...sigh. However, I'll admit in my past responses I did come across as a little toxic myself, I apologize for that and I hope this one comes across better. I gotta ask though, why are some of you people so hung up on this Savage thing, constantly trying to invalidate me is kind of rude. But aside from that, in one of my posts, I clearly said that personally I always pull wall to wall. So I'm not sure why you're trying to disrespect me as a player off of that invalid point...stuff like this is why I'm saying some of you are behaving in a toxic manner. My main objective here is defending the guys who don't happen to share that playstyle, from the abuse that comes from players who hold similar beliefs as you.

Once again, I really suggest that you go back and read my posts thoroughly. I never once said that Tanks MUST pull a certain way or anything along those lines, I'm saying that whether you agree with their pull style or not, just leave it alone and don't interrogate them because as the Tank they have every right to control the pace of the dungeon.

Do you have the right to be annoyed by it? Sure, even though I personally find it pretty petty to let something like that bother you since all it'll really do is extend a run by a few minutes, but it's not like you're "not allowed" to feel a certain way about it, of course you are.

Honestly, a lot of you really need to learn the difference between trying to genuinely give needed advice, and unnecessary nitpicking. A good rule of thumb is as follows: if someone's playstyle isn't wiping the group, putting the group at the risk of a wipe, or if they did not ask you for advice, just leave them be. I've personally never seen this so-called "Ice Mage" whose existence you're passionately blaming me for (this is also kind of toxic tbh), but if their playstyle isn't putting the group at risk of a wipe, then I would leave it alone (now of course, this is relative to the content, so naturally, dungeons would have a higher tolerance than X primals or Savage content).

And lastly, to give you some friendly advice, bro I really suggest that you try to loosen up a bit. This is really not that serious, I'm just concerned that you're saying things like "I'm enabling"this and that, and speaking like people making the mistakes you illustrated in the your paragraph is some sort of global crisis. Dude...relax. You gotta stop like, evaluating every person you play this game with. At the end of the day, it's just about having a good time, I said it once, and I'll say it again, this isn't some office setting. And I mean all of that in the most respectful way possible.