Everyone's talking about smn buffs. But what about mch

[Valence]

It was by necessity bad back then since ranged physical weren't at the level of the selfish jobs (SAM, BLM...) or jobs with limited buffs (SMN, MNK, etc). In there they were more or less balanced, but with the piercing debuff padding the numbers.

Remove it and they were actually 5% lower. And in Heavensward, where the piercing buff was so strong that the creator meta was BRD/MCH, the buff was 10%. Let that sink for a minute. 10% is insane. Remove that and they were actually pretty low as well, even when they were actually part of the godlike double ranged meta.

[Akiudo]

It was by necessity bad back then since ranged physical weren't at the level of the selfish jobs (SAM, BLM...) or jobs with limited buffs (SMN, MNK, etc). In there they were more or less balanced, but with the piercing debuff padding the numbers.

Remove it and they were actually 5% lower. And in Heavensward, where the piercing buff was so strong that the creator meta was BRD/MCH, the buff was 10%. Let that sink for a minute. 10% is insane. Remove that and they were actually pretty low as well, even when they were actually part of the godlike double ranged meta.

see the part i underlined ? thats exactly my point, right now they aren't 5% lower, they are anywhere from 8-13% lower AND have lost usefull things like dismantle, palisade and refresh, if anything they would need to be closer than back when they had these things, yet they are in fact lower, and by quite a lot at that

edit:

Yes I agree. We were around 13-15% behind before 5.1, we're now (for MCH) around 8-9% behind the top dogs. Probably a tad higher for BRD.

at 95% bard literally is 13% below the top dogs, like even if mch was balanced (which it isn't) the difference between mch and bard alone is bigger than the difference between monk and the other melees was before the patch, and these were acting like the sky was falling even though melees generally get 2 spots and their difference at least was difference to the top, not "difference to the class that sucks the least out of the weakest role"