No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[grinkdaboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ARCEqWONbg

[RyuSaarva]

Relative to a single GCD of healing, using Clemency is absolutely dps loss. However, Req-Clemency is far stronger than Cure II (1800 potency versus the 910 for Cure II or 877.5 for Adlo, etc). Two healer GCDs do 364 (Holy/Grav) to 416 (AoW) potency. A single Reg-HC is 375. This puts them very close when 2 non-Lily GCDs would be required, but never if less than 2 GCDs are needed.

being dead is a pretty big dps loss.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

being dead is a pretty big dps loss.

If you need to waste a cast on Clemency to stay alive, you have more things to worry about whether Clemency is a DPS loss or not. But nice strawman.

[Mixt]

Tank: Healer! Halp! Even with cooldown use i'm down to under 10% HP!

Healer: But muh deeps! I shouldn't have to heal!

Tank: *Dies*

Healer: BAD TANK! U SUK! TANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMMUNE TO ALL DAMAGE AND NOT NEED HEALING LOL!

Tank: ...Are you retarded?

Healer: Lol vote kick and report!

DPS: Unthinkingly presses yes on vote kick without paying attention to what is going on

Same DPS, one minute later: Wait, where did the tank go?

Healer: Lol tank was bad and died lol.

FC mate DPS 2: Oh gods, i am surrounded by idiots and trolls, imma pass this on to the rest of the FC

Me upon hearing the story: ...AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!


Okay, so that's a little bit of hyperbole, but not nearly as much as you might think. The overall tone is certainly accurate enough.

So yes, it's true that if your only option for staying alive is to spam Clemency then you probably have bigger problems, like the healer being one of THOSE guys, or either you or the healer having too low gear to handle mass pulls, or worse, both of you have lower gear than needed to handle it, or the DPS is so bad that the healer runs out of resources and you have to chip in on the healing yourself to not get pulped by the dozen or so mobs beating your face in. Or the healer DC'd in the middle of the pull, because server shenanigans, or crappy internet provider, or the cat stepped on the router and turned it off, or a younger sibling decided it would be funny to mess with you by pulling the power cord...

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Tank: Healer! Halp! Even with cooldown use i'm down to under 10% HP!

Healer: But muh deeps! I shouldn't have to heal!

Tank: *Dies*

Healer: BAD TANK! U SUK! TANKS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMMUNE TO ALL DAMAGE AND NOT NEED HEALING LOL!

Tank: ...Are you retarded?

Healer: Lol vote kick and report!

DPS: Unthinkingly presses yes on vote kick without paying attention to what is going on

Same DPS, one minute later: Wait, where did the tank go?

Healer: Lol tank was bad and died lol.

FC mate DPS 2: Oh gods, i am surrounded by idiots and trolls, imma pass this on to the rest of the FC

Me upon hearing the story: ...AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!


Okay, so that's a little bit of hyperbole, but not nearly as much as you might think. The overall tone is certainly accurate enough.

So yes, it's true that if your only option for staying alive is to spam Clemency then you probably have bigger problems, like the healer being one of THOSE guys, or either you or the healer having too low gear to handle mass pulls, or worse, both of you have lower gear than needed to handle it, or the DPS is so bad that the healer runs out of resources and you have to chip in on the healing yourself to not get pulped by the dozen or so mobs beating your face in. Or the healer DC'd in the middle of the pull, because server shenanigans, or crappy internet provider, or the cat stepped on the router and turned it off, or a younger sibling decided it would be funny to mess with you by pulling the power cord...

You realize that falls under "you have more things to worry about whether Clemency is a DPS loss or not", right?

You realize every time you come with these ridiculous hyperboles, you're broadcasting that whenever you die, it's always the healer's fault and never yours. The fact you keep coming up with them over the months means you haven't grown in experience as a tank after all this time, and prefer to blame healers for any of your shortcomings.

Pretty sure every healer here from your server has already blacklisted you due to your hateboner for healers.

[Mixt]

So back to that argument then, saw that coming.

It's my fault in the sense that i try to give the party what it wants, even when the party cannot handle what it wants.

Clearly it is my fault that big pulls are demanded by a party with single-targetting DPS and a healer that thinks GCD heals are heresy and no healing should be done at all as soon as OGCD heals run out, when the wipe happens the responsibility is on my shoulders alone.

It is also my fault if i refuse to give them what they want and only pull single packs, because that is bad and i should feel bad.

It is also my fault if i try to avert a wipe by healing myself, because that's a DPS loss and i should feel bad.

It is clearly my fault when an acquaintance in a completely different party gets screwed over by a troll healer setting the tank up for a fall and leaving them stranded waiting for a replacement.

How dare i try to accomodate the wishes of the rest of the party even when it is clearly not a good idea?

How dare i not accomodate the wishes of the party because i remember what happened the last several times i did that?

In fact, how dare i play tank when i can't magically be immune to everything so nobody else has to put any effort in?

How dare i not carry the entire party of pugs whose subs i do not pay?

How dare i not take it all with a smile and nod?

How dare i be cynical after being used as a punching bag for pretty much my whole life?

How dare i not be all unwarranted optimism in the face of everything going down in flames and the blame for the mess being passed on to me as usual, even in cases where i was not even involved at all? Because shooting the messenger is the hip thing to do i guess.

How dare i use hyperbole to try to get a point across because it's easier than going over every little detail?

Taking responsibility for my own failures? Clearly this means i am an easy target for scapegoating, so now i can also take the responsibility for everybody elses failures as well!

Try to argue about anything? Now i am a horrible person.

Is this what happens to all tanks? Because i think i'm starting to understand where the term "Tank Anxiety" comes from.

It's like multiple forces all pulling you in different directions, tearing you apart and getting mad at you when you can't go in all directions simultaneously.

At this point, i should just resort to total silence and leaving at the first sign of trouble, less headaches that way.

[Greyhawk]

You won't win your argument about adjusting to the wants (not needs) of the group when you are tank. You will never be right, get treated like crap and are expected to "perform" when the group cannot.

I read things like, "Why are you in a queue if you aren't going to respect your groups who want wall pulling", "stop being selfish", "stop casting Clemency, you're bringing down the group"...

I, along with other tanks, can easily counter these stupid remarks because things like the healer not healing and preferring to DPS does actually happen. We can counter these stupid remarks because DPS/Heals are disrespectful and arrogant towards tanks.

In short, it doesn't matter - tanks will be wrong no matter the case, no matter the circumstances, no matter what you do. Just keep doing you. So be it if they wanna get mad and throw a tantrum and leave. You'll still finish when they are waiting out timer and other queues. I don't ever treat groups when I am healing/DPSing like how I get treated most runs. Hell I even get belittled and ridiculed for just explaining some fights! /SMH.

[Jybril]

At this point, i should just resort to total silence and leaving at the first sign of trouble, less headaches that way.

At this point, I think you should find a new job or some friends to play with if almost
every single experience you encounter is a living nightmare lol.

[TaleraRistain]

I dunno why healers get their panties in a wad about paladins casting Clemency. It's health we don't have to worry about. If it eases your mind somehow, you do you, bb. I got your back.

[Gemina]

OP, perhaps you are new to the game, I am not sure. However, you should know tanks pulling large is about as expected as the rising and setting of the sun. Not even kidding and nothing screams inexperience more than a tank pulling one pack of mobs. If this is the case, or coming back from a long break of tanking, I implore you to let your party know that.

All roles, yours included, cannot perform their primary function outside of group play. Tanks can still do some minimal tanking; healers minimal healing; and DPS can somewhat use their toolkit, but nowhere near what could be considered an actual requirement. Even though dungeons aren't what most would consider challenging, most will not argue that dungeon content is when the game will actually toss a threat level high enough that allows players to perform their primary functions, which they still cannot do when a tank is pulling one pack, or otherwise keeping the threat level non-existent. It is really important that you understand that this is what makes even good apples go sour.

You will not learn how to tank until you actually tank. Pulling one group of mobs isn't tanking, it's mobbing the mobs. There are some instances where pulling one pack is acceptable such as mobs with mini-TBs, or multiple mobs capable of casting stinging AoEs. However you show your experience as a tank by learning where you can pull little, and where you can pull everything.

Properly gauge the strength of your group, and you will receive many, many comms as tank I assure you.