No More Big Pulls in Dungeons

[Sated]

I think SE did a good job of gating the pulls. It's difficult to pull an amount that would be "too much" in a lot of dungeons, especially in later content like SB and ShB, since the trash is close together and gated in such a way you need to clear reasonably sized pulls before moving on.

In earlier dungeons I can see how someone might pull too much for the gear they have and the abilities available, but at the same time the mobs don't pose as much of a threat with limited abilities either. I usually only see this happen when someone new to tanking who hasn't geared up for their level tries to emulate what they saw a geared/experienced tank do in an earlier run.

[Kanitezz]

It's not something that is rallied behind, it's a matter of fact inherent in the game design. The tank pulls, therefore the tank can choose to pull one pack or multiple. Having said that, just because a tank pulls large packs doesn't mean that the tank is good. Bad players exist and are a completely separate argument from the "big pulls should be the standard" argument. You should be watching the tank, you should know when they are playing badly, and if they call you out, call them out back, it's not the tank you need to convince, its the other DPS who share the vote kick with you.

FYI, bad players rarely accept fault in DF, whether they are tanks, DPS, or healers.

Getting into arguments inside an instance is a waste of time, and one I'm not fond of. It's EXTREMELY rare in an instance for me to say anything other than an auto translated "Hello!" and an auto translated "Good Job!" The exception is if someone asks for an explanation. Calling people out isn't my game unless they're wrongfully calling someone else out. Then I'll step in.

I also think if someone plays badly enough to warrant a kick, the other party members won't NEED to be convinced. They'd see it themselves.

In response to your FYI. Me and you were talking about tanks that's why I said 'the tank'.

[Lambdafish]

Getting into arguments inside an instance is a waste of time, and one I'm not fond of. It's EXTREMELY rare in an instance for me to say anything other than an auto translated "Hello!" and an auto translated "Good Job!" The exception is if someone asks for an explanation. Calling people out isn't my game unless they're wrongfully calling someone else out. Then I'll step in.

I also think if someone plays badly enough to warrant a kick, the other party members won't NEED to be convinced. They'd see it themselves.

In response to your FYI. Me and you were talking about tanks that's why I said 'the tank'.

This is all fair enough and is a perfectly valid personal stance to take, it doesn't change the fact that there is a big separation between acknowledging bad players and the idea that big pulls are bad however.

[Leloa]

Sometimes the healer does it for the tank, then they cant even heal them. Happened to me and my tank friend today, not once but twice did the healer pull and couldn't keep my friend alive. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

[Kanitezz]

This is all fair enough and is a perfectly valid personal stance to take, it doesn't change the fact that there is a big separation between acknowledging bad players and the idea that big pulls are bad however.

If I somehow made it seem like I thought big pulls themselves were bad I'm sorry. Cause that's not the case. As always it depends on the party. In my experience big pulls usually go alright. But for parties where they don't, if a member of the party keeps trying to push and push and push for something that the others can't handle, they are wasting an annoying amount of time. Unless they're your friends and they're ok with it. Or your random party mates are trying to improve themselves.

[Aurelius2625]

Clemency is NOT a dps gain. If it was, PLD's would be using it for optimization. It's not, therefore it's a dps loss.

I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but if a HEALER can't HEAL as well as DPS, then they are bad healer, literally you have so many cooldowns this should never be an issue. Tanks using MITIGATION properly can allow healers to dps easier.

People on these forums suggest these beta playstyles that screw over players that actually believe this garbage is worth following. It's not. PLD's, for the love of god, Clemency is a clutch tool to be used during savage and ultimate prog... you should NEVER have to clemency yourself during a pull. Free healing that WAR, DRK, and GNB can do is fine... but don't cuck your magic rotation by Clemency'ing yourself.

[Callinon]

Clemency is NOT a dps gain. If it was, PLD's would be using it for optimization. It's not, therefore it's a dps loss.

I believe the conclusion drawn was that Clemency in place of a Cure 2 is an rDPS gain because healers AoEing will do more damage than a tank will in a single gcd. So it's a dps loss for the PLD but a dps gain for the party.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I just finished leveling my healer jobs. As an only decent at best healer, I can honestly say that small pulls are boring. Throw a shield/regen on the tank and spam a single damage spell. If I had to use an actual GCD heal on any tank past Sohm Al, I knew it was time to check their gear. I won't run ahead and pull on my own, because honestly, I'm lazy, but c'mon, if you're not getting melted, you can pull more.

[Ayer2015]

I smell a troll post

[Shurrikhan]

Relative to a single GCD of healing, using Clemency is absolutely dps loss. However, Req-Clemency is far stronger than Cure II (1800 potency versus the 910 for Cure II or 877.5 for Adlo, etc). Two healer GCDs do 364 (Holy/Grav) to 416 (AoW) potency. A single Reg-HC is 375. This puts them very close when 2 non-Lily GCDs would be required, but never if less than 2 GCDs are needed.