Is DRK ever getting adjustments?

[FallenWings]

DRK's AoE output is alot more than you are thinking. Flood of Shadows is *really,* *really* strong as a 250/300 **oGCD** AoE attack. Without their respective burst windows in IR, FoF, NM, the other tanks have virtually no comparable oGCD and need to catch up through more than *8* GCDs to reach that initial 750/900 pot burst from just Flood alone. Throw Abyssal Drain (200) and Salted Earth(360) in and you will understand why DRKs AoE GCDs are comparatively lower with Stalwart Soul being only a 10 pot upgrade from Unleash and Quietus only 70 pot higher.

Throw in the mana and blood gain from Stalwart and Blood Weapon and DRKs Flood uses per pack rises from 3/4 to 6-7. That's another 600/900 oGCD pot thrown ontop.

The nerf to Abyssal Drain and subsequently Steel Cyclone for Warrior is specifically to kneecap both DRK and WAR from being overpowered dungeon god tanks to being balanced with PLD and GNB. It was fun to recover ourselves and pull those 1v1 clutch moments with bosses when the party was dead but it was broken. SE clearly doesn't want us to refill our HP to 100% per GCD whilst PLD and GNB have no such options. It is not completely taken away as Abyssal Drain albeit being a cooldown still heals per target and can be used as a burst heal in large packs and Warrior gained Nascent Flash where they have to actively manage their bursts into it whilst have a reasonable 25 second cooldown on the skill to prevent the aforementioned broken self sustain.

The defensive gap in their kit only really exists in Dark Mind where WAR has Thrill and GNB Camouflage. But with current tank toolsets adding Arms Length and the new Reprisal, we have more than enough cooldowns to handle any situation, provided the DPS aren't single targeting a massive pull.

As the tank with the strongest AoE Burst at 80(Living Shadow, 4-7 Flood, Abyssal Drain, Salted Earth) and the ability to "cooldown" their burst AoE engine(Flood) faster by regaining mana in between pulls DRK is in a very good state.

In Savage raids/trial DRK is one of the most durable tanks next to WAR whilst having second last/last damage output on average(remember this margin is less than 3%. We're looking at 300 DPS at most currently and your own personal skill is what matters more) and gaining the most from raid buffs thanks to their incredible flexibility which would put them 2nd highest when optimized.

DRK is fine. It's skill acquisition during leveling is a big think with TBN at 70 but everything else is designed and relatively balanced reasonably.

[Jandor]

The nerf to Abyssal Drain and subsequently Steel Cyclone for Warrior is specifically to kneecap both DRK and WAR from being overpowered dungeon god tanks to being balanced with PLD and GNB. It was fun to recover ourselves and pull those 1v1 clutch moments with bosses when the party was dead but it was broken.

Oh no, not the expert roulette!

[FallenWings]

Oh no, not the expert roulette!

If it's such an inconvenience being reasonably balanced why don't we also just ask for DPS to have instakill buttons?

I mean, expert roulette amirite? /s

[Jandor]

If it's such an inconvenience being reasonably balanced why don't we also just ask for DPS to have instakill buttons?

DRK and WAR having good self healing in casual content.

DPS having instant kill buttons.

Yes, because those are two directly comparable things.

[FallenWings]

DRK and WAR having good self healing in casual content.

DPS having instant kill buttons.

Yes, because those are two directly comparable things.

"Good" self healing? More like "I will now heal to full in one button press and trivialize the existence of healer and damage intake".

Just because content is deemed casual doesn't mean we should further remove any degree of challenge or thought process in them. The further you diminish and automate it, the more you have to ask why are you even playing it in the first place.

And yes I do compare instakill buttons with those old self healing toolsets. They were insanely broken and were an upset to reasonable balance amongst the tanks in dungeons and any possible future horde type encounters. A single tank shouldn't just straight up be virtually invincible.

Self heal still exists and is more fairly rationed against content and other tank toolsets.

[Shurrikhan]

"Good" self healing? More like "I will now heal to full in one button press and trivialize the existence of healer and damage intake".

If limited to casual content and to the infrequent result of setup... I've no issue with that.

I mean, just compare that to what's saved by, say, Holy spam, which requires no such setup...

The imbalance in SB dungeons was due to one tank dealing 50% more AoE dps than the other two over any typical run far, far more than it had anything to do with Clemency being lackluster in solo-clutch scenarios compared to SC or DA-AD (though still better than either of those for keeping your dps from dying after the healer takes a swan dive).

[Ekimmak]

Oh no, not the expert roulette!

You know, it's (not) hilarious to see people talking about how dungeons don't matter, and balancing doesn't need to be made for it, and then go and set their Savage LEARNING parties to have iLevels that need you grinding for expert tomestones since day #1.

It's part of the content, and does need to be considered when balancing things out. Anyone who says otherwise should leave iLevel requirements and [Duty Complete] off their savage PF groups, and then tell us how their weekly clears went.

[Breadgehog]

Throw in the mana and blood gain from Stalwart and Blood Weapon and DRKs Flood uses per pack rises from 3/4 to 6-7. That's another 600/900 oGCD pot thrown ontop.

I'm genuinely unsure if you read the post. The near-entirety of my concerns are with how DRK plays while levelling, and I specifically mention how good Flood is to start, but it falls off HARD once the other tanks have access to actual combo actions. If someone's post is "DRK really struggles with AoE before 72 and as a result has issues with big pulls compounded by reworks to its defensive kit", it's a bit rich to talk about how good it is after that point. I'm not saying DRK has to be an AoE star at all points of the game, just that it's glaringly bad for a considerable part of its levelling experience. In the end most of the issues could be resolved by some skill acquisition order changes or other small QoL things like Blood Weapon duration, it doesn't need sweeping buffs.

[FallenWings]

I'm genuinely unsure if you read the post. The near-entirety of my concerns are with how DRK plays while levelling, and I specifically mention how good Flood is to start, but it falls off HARD once the other tanks have access to actual combo actions. If someone's post is "DRK really struggles with AoE before 72 and as a result has issues with big pulls compounded by reworks to its defensive kit", it's a bit rich to talk about how good it is after that point. I'm not saying DRK has to be an AoE star at all points of the game, just that it's glaringly bad for a considerable part of its levelling experience. In the end most of the issues could be resolved by some skill acquisition order changes or other small QoL things like Blood Weapon duration, it doesn't need sweeping buffs.

I'm unsure if you've even bothered to read my post then. I've already explained that Flood is the reason DRK is not doing bad and is adequeately balanced with the other tanks. The other tanks with their "combo" do not match up to the Flood burst until *atleast* 8 GCDs in, in which everything is already dead and DRK is also regaining mana to, again blast out more 250/300 oGCD potency.

If you were talking about gameplay then maybe? Although I hardly see how 1-2 1-2 is any more engaging than 1a 1a 1a 1c 1e.

But as far as actual effectiveness goes, DRK does fine whilst levelling and is probably the best dungeon tank at 80. No TBN till 70? Rampart + Shadow Wall + Reprisal + Arms Length is more than enough.

[Breadgehog]

I'd love to be in the levelling parties you're in where everything's dead in 8 GCDs - those sound wonderful, honestly. And DRK has practically no AoE MP gains until it gets its combo action, which is why Flood doesn't hold up to the others when they have combos. Blood Weapon will never give you a full Flood because of its duration (unless you specifically switch to ST for the 5 GCDs and drag out a pull, which the DPS loss is not worth), and Delirium is good for a burst of it but isn't enough to sustain anything.