How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Aurelius2625]

It's outrageous that a healer, who contributes the most to a raid already through healing, does the SAME damage as a tank. That's unacceptable. The only reason tanks are brought is because they are forced to through the encounter. If people could bring three healers and one tank, they would. Healers should be below tanks, tanks should be below dps.

[Reynhart]

It's outrageous that a healer, who contributes the most to a raid already through healing, does the SAME damage as a tank.

It's outrageous that a tank, who contributes the most to a raid already through not being one shotted, does the SAME damage as a healer.

The only reason tanks are brought is because they are forced to through the encounter.

The only reason you brought a healer is because the games forces it if you want to survive.

[ForteNightshade]

It's outrageous that a tank, who contributes the most to a raid already through not being one shotted, does the SAME damage as a healer.

The only reason you brought a healer is because the games forces it if you want to survive.

Tanks are essentially buffier DPS, and have been for a while now. This sounds more than a little silly when White Mage achieves the same damage spamming Glare and refreshing Dia everything 30 seconds while tanks have to maintain an actual rotation.

[Kabooa]

Tanks are essentially buffier DPS, and have been for a while now. This sounds more than a little silly when White Mage achieves the same damage spamming Glare and refreshing Dia everything 30 seconds while tanks have to maintain an actual rotation.

Dia refreshing alone has more moving parts to it than most of the tank 'rotation'.

[Nedkel]

Dia refreshing alone has more moving parts to it than most of the tank 'rotation'.

This is not an argument for tanks having the same dmg as healers.

Healers does not have to time their "rotation" since they are ranged casters and could cast from anywhere they want. On tanks you have times off from melee range and you cant just stand there and eat all aoes, same goes to melee dps thus why their dps on average is high.

[Kabooa]

This is not an argument for tanks having the same dmg as healers.

Healers does not have to time their "rotation" since they are ranged casters and could cast from anywhere they want. On tanks you have times off from melee range and you cant just stand there and eat all aoes, same goes to melee dps thus why their dps on average is high.

There is no argument in this thread that is exclusive to tanks.

Having a 'rotation' doesn't mean you should do more damage, nor the difficulty or lack there of in the rotation itself. To say tanks must do more because they push a wider variety of buttons to achieve their damage ignores that Healers juggle their own challenges to free up their GCDs.

That tanks primarily interact with enemies ignores that Healers optimize around maximizing their interactions while tanks get it as a default. A healer should be properly rewarded for that, no?

Healers of all the jobs have the least tools to deal with forced movement - A tank loses uptime when forced out of melee, a healer loses it when targeted by mechanics, with the possible exception of Astro who make liberal use of downtime between mechanics and the Malefic Cast time to shuffle from one place to another.

[Shurrikhan]

Tanks are essentially buffier DPS, and have been for a while now. This sounds more than a little silly when White Mage achieves the same damage spamming Glare and refreshing Dia everything 30 seconds while tanks have to maintain an actual rotation.

The mere fact that tanks' rotations are something unalterable, i.e. to be merely "maintained", indicates that there may well more complexity in the healers' offensive actions than the tanks'. Apart from DRK (via TBN DA banking for raid buffs), I can't think of a single tank that has to consider damage taken or party actions in any way that would change its behavior.

And let's remember how much "buffier" they are. They mitigate just over half of all damage dealt to them when you take the multiplicative effects of Defense, Trait, and their defensive skills. (Defense and Trait alone compound to around 46% mitigation, while defensive skills tend to be used where the most damage is inflicted, thus skewing the contribution of their heightened % mitigation to an even effect overall.) They remove the need for more healing than they could actually ever even receive from a healer.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

The mere fact that tanks' rotations are something unalterable, i.e. to be merely "maintained", indicates that there may well more complexity in the healers' offensive actions than the tanks'. Apart from DRK (via TBN DA banking for raid buffs), I can't think of a single tank that has to consider damage taken or party actions in any way that would change its behavior.

And let's remember how much "buffier" they are. They mitigate just over half of all damage dealt to them when you take the multiplicative effects of Defense, Trait, and their defensive skills. (Defense and Trait alone compound to around 46% mitigation, while defensive skills tend to be used where the most damage is inflicted, thus skewing the contribution of their heightened % mitigation to an even effect overall.) They remove the need for more healing than they could actually ever even receive from a healer.

I mean same can be said about healers in optimised fights where every heal is mapped then all they have to do is press glare/malefic/broil and refresh dot, can be considered unalterable. Also your statement is a bit disingenuous of optimised opener for specific fights in regards PLD and GNB, where very much their rotation do in fact alter from the standard.

[Shurrikhan]

I mean same can be said about healers in optimised fights where every heal is mapped then all they have to do is press glare/malefic/broil and refresh dot, can be considered unalterable. Also your statement is a bit disingenuous of optimised opener for specific fights in regards PLD and GNB, where very much their rotation do in fact alter from the standard.

The first is a fair point. Eventually, both all healing and damage can be seen a single "rotation", which is largely likewise unalterable. That's an eventuality, though. Everything until then is subject to alteration.

But it's at least as disingenuous to use a change in opener as evidence for tanks having to change their actions ("rotation") based on circumstances occurring over the course of the fight. You altered the starting sequence, not the fact that you will thereafter maintain it exactly as you would with any other sequence.