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  1. #1
    Player
    Dogempire's Avatar
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    Dec 2015
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    1,080
    Character
    Okami Amaterasuu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CazzT View Post
    Snip.
    Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested, sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it. Not only that, but I don't recall ever seeing something lore related say that it's impossible to glamour white mage robes over machinist armor, I mean, it's glamour.

    Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow. I mean if we didn't have the echo I'm pretty sure the vast majority of us wouldn't have made it to level 50 and would be permadead somewhere in Tam Tara or Stone Vigil if we started restricting the game by only allowing things that are lore friendly.

    Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    CazzT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    612
    Character
    Kyssa Shay
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 93
    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    1. A person can put on clothes, etc.
    2. A lot of the gear restricted to particular jobs is not gear designed specifically for that/those job(s).
    3. Your character is not only one Job/Class.
    4. The glamour and gear system does not support Job/Class identity. There are 18 jobs and 11 crafter and gatherer classes, but only 15 glamour plate. Any one item can only have one glamour applied and many jobs/classes end up sharing gear. You cant even have multiples of most high end gear if you wanted to. If you have a glamour that is exclusive to Red Mage when you switch to Black Mage you have the generic look. You can only apply plates in certain areas.
    1 - Saying a person can change clothes is irrelevant to removing restrictions.
    2 - Which I addressed.
    3 - Completely irrelevant.
    4 - The number of glamour plates is irrelevant to the design of the job gear. Glamour plates didn't even exist until Stormblood. Another irrelevant point.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    Ok Yda and Papalymo. Iconic characters, specifically identified as a Pugilist and a Thaumaturge. Both wear plate gear.
    Still NPCs. The rules for NPC gear are not the same for job gear for players. This has always been the case, and is the case in pretty much every MMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    Lore reasons is an extremely lazy excuse to not add something widely requested
    For something that is centered around the lore of a job, it's not an excuse, it's a fundamental reason for keeping it the way it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    sure lore is important but the fact of the matter is that a majority of the fanbase doesn't care about the lore to the extent that they would support denying changing current content so that it benefits other players and allows them to get more enjoyment out of the game simply because the lore doesn't allow it.
    So you support throwing out lore in favor of what a supposed majority want? A big reason why FFXIV is so highly praised is because the devs do not sacrifice lore in that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    Plus, even if lore was the reason you can't mix armors from different classes, you can always add some new quest or something lore related that retcons that restriction somehow.
    This says everything I need to know. Retconning is the worst thing a writer can do. Especially for "gameplay" reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    Anyways, my point is that lore isn't a good reason for not lifting glamour restrictions. Most people here are only advocating for armor glamour restriction removal anyways, not weapon.
    When lore is a fundamental part of the jobs' gear aesthetics, it's a perfectly valid reason for not lifting the restrictions.

    Consider: When you see Final Fantasy art, regardless of which title it's from, you can quickly pick out jobs/classes by how they look. What you, and others in this thread, are asking for is to throw that away. It's one of the defining characteristics of the entire franchise.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    MsQi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,163
    Character
    X'lota Qi
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CazzT View Post
    1 - Saying a person can change clothes is irrelevant to removing restrictions.
    2 - Which I addressed.
    3 - Completely irrelevant.
    4 - The number of glamour plates is irrelevant to the design of the job gear. Glamour plates didn't even exist until Stormblood. Another irrelevant point.


    Still NPCs. The rules for NPC gear are not the same for job gear for players. This has always been the case, and is the case in pretty much every MMO.
    1. entirely relevant. There is no lore that keeps a person from wearing stuff they own.
    2. and what you said supported no restrictions. Since they aren't designed for jobs they shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
    3. Completely relevant
    4. Entirely relevant. The systems in place are contrary to what they claim is important.

    What are these rules you made up? You think lore keeps me from putting on tank armor when I'm a mage, but it doesn't keep NPCs from doing it? They live in the same world.
    (9)
    "A good RPG needs a healthy dose of imbalance."
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuC365vjzBFmvbu6M7dB80A

  4. #4
    Player
    CazzT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
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    612
    Character
    Kyssa Shay
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 93
    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    1. entirely relevant. There is no lore that keeps a person from wearing stuff they own.
    2. and what you said supported no restrictions. Since they aren't designed for jobs they shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
    3. Completely relevant
    4. Entirely relevant. The systems in place are contrary to what they claim is important.
    1 - Nothing is preventing you from wearing gear for your jobs that is not designed for that specific job. Black Mage garb for Black Mage. I'm not referring to raid/tome gear. I have already made that clear.
    2 - It did not support no restrictions. Read it again.
    3 - Incorrect.
    4 - They are not. Being able to wear a different piece of armor does not invalidate the restrictions. They are not reliant on each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    What are these rules you made up?
    Not liking reality does not mean someone made up rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    You think lore keeps me from putting on tank armor when I'm a mage, but it doesn't keep NPCs from doing it? They live in the same world.
    You refuse to accept that rules for NPCs are different from rules for players. You completely ignored my point that NPCs have skills/spells that players do not for the same job. The same goes for gear for NPCs. You're free to not like it, but it's still the reality of the situation. And it's not something that's going to change. And before you twist my words into saying that restrictions will never be lifted, I'm referring to how NPCs are geared.

    You also entirely ignored my point about it being a defining characteristic of the franchise.
    (0)
    Last edited by CazzT; 11-05-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    MsQi's Avatar
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    Mar 2018
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    Gridania
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    2,163
    Character
    X'lota Qi
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CazzT View Post
    snip
    I don't know what your stance on this is because you are constantly contradicting yourself. The main focus of this topic is removing restrictions on NON artifact gear. Artifact gear is usually considered the gear you get as part of your job quests at 50,60,70 etc.
    (8)
    "A good RPG needs a healthy dose of imbalance."
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuC365vjzBFmvbu6M7dB80A

  6. #6
    Player
    rachcouture's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    328
    Character
    Taylor Swiftsong
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    I don't know what your stance on this is because you are constantly contradicting yourself. The main focus of this topic is removing restrictions on NON artifact gear. Artifact gear is usually considered the gear you get as part of your job quests at 50,60,70 etc.
    I'm okay with artifact gear being lessened to role restrictions, even. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to wear my dyable Constellation top on WHM or SCH. It's a bejeweled summer dress; nothing about that screams AST at all. Same with the Seventh Heaven outfit being nothing more than a couture gown.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    CazzT's Avatar
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    Feb 2018
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    612
    Character
    Kyssa Shay
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 93
    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    I don't know what your stance on this is because you are constantly contradicting yourself.
    Then you're not reading what I'm writing. I have not contradicted myself at any point.

    Quote Originally Posted by MsQi View Post
    The main focus of this topic is removing restrictions on NON artifact gear. Artifact gear is usually considered the gear you get as part of your job quests at 50,60,70 etc.
    And that is the gear I am referring, job gear. But everyone keeps blurring the line on this, which is why I'm pointing out that the restrictions should not be lifted. If you had actually been reading what I've written, you would know what gear I'm referring to. And you would also see that I am not contradicting myself because of that.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    MsQi's Avatar
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    Mar 2018
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    Gridania
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    Character
    X'lota Qi
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CazzT View Post
    Then you're not reading what I'm writing. I have not contradicted myself at any point.

    And that is the gear I am referring, job gear. But everyone keeps blurring the line on this, which is why I'm pointing out that the restrictions should not be lifted. If you had actually been reading what I've written, you would know what gear I'm referring to. And you would also see that I am not contradicting myself because of that.
    you said "There's no reason to remove the restrictions on CLASS gear. " You argue against the OP who has already said he wants Job gear (artifact) to remain restricted.

    EDIT:

    Yda, Popalymo, and J'olhmyn are not wearing Artifact gear. Maybe you made some bad word choices, but your position is confusing me.
    (9)
    Last edited by MsQi; 11-05-2019 at 12:16 PM.
    "A good RPG needs a healthy dose of imbalance."
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuC365vjzBFmvbu6M7dB80A

  9. #9
    Player
    Dogempire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,080
    Character
    Okami Amaterasuu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CazzT View Post
    Consider: When you see Final Fantasy art, regardless of which title it's from, you can quickly pick out jobs/classes by how they look. What you, and others in this thread, are asking for is to throw that away. It's one of the defining characteristics of the entire franchise.
    Ah yes, because when I see a super buff Roe in a bikini and a Frog head I think "That's definitely a summoner"

    We have a glamour system for a reason, and that reason is because it adds another dimension of fun to the game by letting you pick and choose your own custom outfits based on the gear you have available to you.
    (10)

    Watching forum drama be like

  10. #10
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    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    Ah yes, because when I see a super buff Roe in a bikini and a Frog head I think "That's definitely a summoner"
    No, you'd think that's someone in a bikini and a frog head. The existence of such types of (all classes) glamour does not change the fact that there are gears that are associated with certain jobs/roles. Again, a green Shisui set is associated with Ninja regardless if you think that's a suitable gear for Ninja. When you see someone wearing that gear, you can know that's a ninja unless you've misidentified the gear.
    (1)

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