Revelations from Patch 5.1

[NessaWyvern]

So someone said something earlier about Halric

about Halric saying "Nect... Al..." you don't think he's referring to his favourite food, the nectarine, which is poisoned? What if this story is going to get even darker? Like oh gods, what if he wants to end it all, and he eats it, and Alisae finds him too late.

[Alleo]

So someone said something earlier about Halric

about Halric saying "Nect... Al..." you don't think he's referring to his favourite food, the nectarine, which is poisoned? What if this story is going to get even darker? Like oh gods, what if he wants to end it all, and he eats it, and Alisae finds him too late.

About Halric:

It could of course go into that dark direction but we do know that the nectarine is also simply his favorite food. So maybe after all the time feeling something again he just wishes to eat something he really liked. Or he simply remembered that Alisaie went out to get him one.

More Tempering thoughts...

While the Convocation of Thirteen members were Tempered, that is not true for the majority of Ancients. Especially those Ancients that gave up their lives to summon Hydaelyn. I have a very hard time seeing the Ancients trying not to untemper the Convocation of Thirteen if they found out they were Tempered. I have a very hard time seeing our Ancient self not trying to fix the Tempering problem, given that from the sound of it, we worked with the Convocation of Thirteen for some time. Which begs the question as to why the unsundered Ascians are all still Tempered I think.

There's two more things I find concerning about how Tempering is likened to the people who are turning into Sin Eaters. The first is that the description of both people turning into Sin Eaters and how Tempering works only takee the question of aether elemental imbalance into account. But we know of several primals who have Tempered people who have no known elemental quality (Lakshimi for example). What are we supposed to do with the Eikons who really are primarily concepts and have no links to aspected aether? Even Zodiark and Hydaelyn are described more in terms of what they do then what kind of aether they are made up of.

The second is that the people turning into Sin Eaters actually want to be fixed, while people who are already Tempered do not. It sounds more like the people turning into Sin Eaters are more like people who are close to being Tempered, but aren't yet. My gut feeling is that actual Sin Eaters are more like people who are Tempered. Which begs the question if there is a way to fix beings who have already turned into Sin Eaters... My gut feeling says no... but we'll see... The flip-side of this argument is that Voidsent should by all rights have overly aspected aether as well... but for all that Voidsent gobble up the unaspected aether of the Source, they never seem to become any less Voidsent. But Eden seems to be tackling this side of the idea too.

Also... Ga Bu has always been a weird case. Since there's no evidence he is even Tempered by Titan. Him being mute after seeing his parents be all but killed in front of him makes as much sense as him being mute because he got Tempered. So I can see Alisae's hope of him becoming "untempered" turning out not to be needed at all.

About your points on tempering

I am also not really sure if tempering is the same as being affected by Light. It makes sense that too much Light can be changed back by starting the aether again since Light just simply stops the flow and just like with Eden you need something to start it again.

Light cant be the reason imo tempering happens. None of the tempered people we see behave like the people soon turning into sin eaters. A lot of the tempered people are active while those affected by Light are barely even able to move. Just look at Zodiark and him being seemingly Darkness. Why should he temper by using Light? Also over all the time unlike the people with Light they did not turn into outright mindless monsters. Heck only those that get too much tempered turn into strange beings, most of the others are still the same just with the believe to serve their new master.

So either the other elementals like water and fire can do the same thing too or all of those that temper somehow also use Light but unlike on the first people wont just turn into nasty monsters over time...which kinda would point against Light being the one that does it..

I wonder if maybe they just brought that up and later when Alisaie tries it out on the source they will find out that its not the same. Or maybe they find out that Ga Bu is the only that can be saved that way because he is a special case.

[RyuDragnier]

About your points on tempering

I am also not really sure if tempering is the same as being affected by Light. It makes sense that too much Light can be changed back by starting the aether again since Light just simply stops the flow and just like with Eden you need something to start it again.

Light cant be the reason imo tempering happens. None of the tempered people we see behave like the people soon turning into sin eaters. A lot of the tempered people are active while those affected by Light are barely even able to move. Just look at Zodiark and him being seemingly Darkness. Why should he temper by using Light? Also over all the time unlike the people with Light they did not turn into outright mindless monsters. Heck only those that get too much tempered turn into strange beings, most of the others are still the same just with the believe to serve their new master.

So either the other elementals like water and fire can do the same thing too or all of those that temper somehow also use Light but unlike on the first people wont just turn into nasty monsters over time...which kinda would point against Light being the one that does it..

I wonder if maybe they just brought that up and later when Alisaie tries it out on the source they will find out that its not the same. Or maybe they find out that Ga Bu is the only that can be saved that way because he is a special case.

About that...

I believe Tempering is actually in fact Aetherical Corruption, with their aether being corrupted due to an element throwing off the natural aetherical balance their body has. In the case of Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, it would make sense if their tempered have had their aetherical balance thrown too much towards Fire, Earth, and Wind respectively. Meaning just like with those corrupted by the Light and nearing Sin Eater transformation, they've been corrupted by a specific element, albeit not to the degree of transforming into a minion. We've seen moments of transformation due to aether corruption however, some of which besides the Sin Eaters being the Heretics turning into dragons in ARR and HW. Aetherical corruption may in fact be the cause of tempering, and now knowing that strengthening the other elements may in fact fix the problem, it could also lead to fixing the tempered by fixing their corrupted Aether.

This could also explain why Ysayle could turn into Shiva while still staying in control, as those with the Echo have already been blessed by Hydaelyn, and thus have quite a bit of tolerance to aether corruption. However, as shown by the bad future with the WoL's death by their Aether loss and the near Sin Eater transformation at the end of ShB, there IS a limit to this protection.

[Kuroka]

About that...

I believe Tempering is actually in fact Aetherical Corruption, with their aether being corrupted due to an element throwing off the natural aetherical balance their body has. In the case of Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, it would make sense if their tempered have had their aetherical balance thrown too much towards Fire, Earth, and Wind respectively. Meaning just like with those corrupted by the Light and nearing Sin Eater transformation, they've been corrupted by a specific element, albeit not to the degree of transforming into a minion. We've seen moments of transformation due to aether corruption however, some of which besides the Sin Eaters being the Heretics turning into dragons in ARR and HW. Aetherical corruption may in fact be the cause of tempering, and now knowing that strengthening the other elements may in fact fix the problem, it could also lead to fixing the tempered by fixing their corrupted Aether.

This could also explain why Ysayle could turn into Shiva while still staying in control, as those with the Echo have already been blessed by Hydaelyn, and thus have quite a bit of tolerance to aether corruption. However, as shown by the bad future with the WoL's death by their Aether loss and the near Sin Eater transformation at the end of ShB, there IS a limit to this protection.

I might add, we saw how Leviatan turned ppl into monsters on sastasha hard... if we look a that now it actually makes sence, as they can corrupt ppl to the point they transform, much like ppl turn into voidsent or sineaters.

[EdwinLi]

About Halric:



About your points on tempering

I am also not really sure if tempering is the same as being affected by Light. It makes sense that too much Light can be changed back by starting the aether again since Light just simply stops the flow and just like with Eden you need something to start it again.

Light cant be the reason imo tempering happens. None of the tempered people we see behave like the people soon turning into sin eaters. A lot of the tempered people are active while those affected by Light are barely even able to move. Just look at Zodiark and him being seemingly Darkness. Why should he temper by using Light? Also over all the time unlike the people with Light they did not turn into outright mindless monsters. Heck only those that get too much tempered turn into strange beings, most of the others are still the same just with the believe to serve their new master.

So either the other elementals like water and fire can do the same thing too or all of those that temper somehow also use Light but unlike on the first people wont just turn into nasty monsters over time...which kinda would point against Light being the one that does it..

I wonder if maybe they just brought that up and later when Alisaie tries it out on the source they will find out that its not the same. Or maybe they find out that Ga Bu is the only that can be saved that way because he is a special case.

It is explained in that cutscene that Tempering requires a person to have their Elemental Alignment in their Aether to be altered towards a specific element for the Tempering to work.

For Example, Titan tempering requires to put a being's Aether into a strong Earth Element alignment thus eventually their Aether alignement will slowly become nothing but Earth Element.

It basically means the process of turning into a Sin Eater is the same Process of becoming Temper but with a different Element.

The cure method is not to simply shift light alignment back to normal state but to shift the entire Aether of a Being back to Normal State either from Fire, Water, Light, Darkness, and etc.

[Alleo]

It is explained in that cutscene that Tempering requires a person to have their Elemental Alignment in their Aether to be altered towards a specific element for the Tempering to work.

For Example, Titan tempering requires to put a being's Aether into a strong Earth Element alignment thus eventually their Aether alignement will slowly become nothing but Earth Element.

It basically means the process of turning into a Sin Eater is the same Process of becoming Temper but with a different Element.

The cure method is not to simply shift light alignment back to normal state but to shift the entire Aether of a Being back to Normal State either from Fire, Water, Light, Darkness, and etc.

Hm must have been long ago because I honestly dont remember them talking about tempering that way. I only remember that people with strong will can resist tempering a bit longer but will also succumb to it over time (yet at the same time other primals need to actively use an ability to temper..) and that people with echo may not only resist it but can overpower them. Yet when we meet the Lightwardens its not our echo that protects us from their Light when we consume it but our blessing which are two different things.

Another difference is that tempered people often still keep their own look but are just mindcontrolled while the ones with light will always lose theirselves and turn into monsters. You just needed one attack from one higher sin eater and you are done for. While tempering seemingly needs to be overdone to truly turn someone into a monster. Why such differences between these? And then we have the void sent which are also turned into monsters while those tempered by Zodiark are keeping their normal form and some sense of self.

About Angelo and Alisaies plan:

If it truly just needs to balance out the aether then can Alisaie even do something with Angelo? Because as far as we know right now that familiar was there to start the flow of aether again but seemingly that should only function with people that have too much light because its just their aether (and mind) that is stagnating. But if you have someone tempered by Titan this should not work since its not too much Light in that case. So what would they need to manage it there?

I am in the end not sure if this is truly a solution for tempering and I am not sure if I would like it to be that way either. On one side it would be great to have something to save people on the other side it will make primals even less dangerous and takes one dramatic part of the story out of it.

[EdwinLi]

Hm must have been long ago because I honestly dont remember them talking about tempering that way. I only remember that people with strong will can resist tempering a bit longer but will also succumb to it over time (yet at the same time other primals need to actively use an ability to temper..) and that people with echo may not only resist it but can overpower them. Yet when we meet the Lightwardens its not our echo that protects us from their Light when we consume it but our blessing which are two different things.

Another difference is that tempered people often still keep their own look but are just mindcontrolled while the ones with light will always lose theirselves and turn into monsters. You just needed one attack from one higher sin eater and you are done for. While tempering seemingly needs to be overdone to truly turn someone into a monster. Why such differences between these? And then we have the void sent which are also turned into monsters while those tempered by Zodiark are keeping their normal form and some sense of self.

About Angelo and Alisaies plan:

If it truly just needs to balance out the aether then can Alisaie even do something with Angelo? Because as far as we know right now that familiar was there to start the flow of aether again but seemingly that should only function with people that have too much light because its just their aether (and mind) that is stagnating. But if you have someone tempered by Titan this should not work since its not too much Light in that case. So what would they need to manage it there?

I am in the end not sure if this is truly a solution for tempering and I am not sure if I would like it to be that way either. On one side it would be great to have something to save people on the other side it will make primals even less dangerous and takes one dramatic part of the story out of it.

As I said the cure method is to focus on the Aether itself rather than one Element of the Aether. You are focusing too much on the belief that it will only work on Light Element of the Aether but that same cutscene already stated the method of restoring the flow of Aether required stabilizing the Elemental Alignment of the person's Aether into equalibrium for it to start flowing normally again which also then lead to Alisaie realizing temper people tend to have the same issue when they become temper as their Element Alignment is shifted from Equalibrium into a specific Element such as Titan's Temper shifting towards Earth Element which then lead to Alisaie mentioning this same method may work as well on her Kobold friend since when he summoned Titan, he became Temper by titan as a side-effect of the summon thus leading to his constant struggle to recover from the death of his parents as the Titan Temper is keeping him in a state of despair.

Primal effect of temper can be stopped at a certain point because the Primal controls the extent of the effect thus why only those chosen may be turned into a Monster focused on a Specific Element such as Leviathan's minions being Temper people who turned into Water Element creatures due to having their Aether greatly shifted towards Water.

Sin Eaters are basically Temper without a Master thus they are basically Wild Tempers. Without a Master to control the extent of the effect, they will continue to change into Sin Eaters. However, with a Master their transformation can be stopped at a certain point such as it was with Arbert's Companions in the Job Role Quest where they were made into Sin Eaters by Vauthry thus Vauthry made certain their transformation stopped at a point where they still at least kept their original appearance with a bit of Sin Eater skin on.