Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[CookiesNCreams]

So I just talked with some friends, and here is what apparently might happen...one of these two scenarios could happen:

1. When Yoshida said they want high end recipes to be more involved and he wants us to “observe the situation more” when crafting and using proc moves, he means that it won’t be in 5.1, but 5.2. Since the crafter and gatherer rework is split into 5.1 and 5.2. So it’s possible he wants people to have fun with the high end recipes easy difficulty until 5.2 begins.

2. When Yoshida said that in the interview, he meant it applies to Ishgard only recipes. Thing is, if this is the case, he did not make it very clear at all that that’s going to be the case.

———————————————————-
Dengeki Interview with Yoshida:

Q. From what i've heard so far, it seems like the "high end recipes" won't be craftable with macros

Y: The normal recipes will be craftable if you set them up properly, but the difficult recipes will require you to use the actions with procs properly when they show up and we'd like to design it where you have to actually observe the current situation.

Q. The current crafting system allows you to ignore HQ mats and use macros to craft HQ items.

Y: I thought that part was broken, so DoL/DoH will have overall adjustments. It will change entirely and new crafters and gatherers can instantly understand what to do and what does what.
——————————————————-


Either of these two scenarios could be the case. To be honest, either of these have a 50/50 chance of happening. There is really no way of guessing what’ll happen in 5.2. There’s not enough context. So we need to wait until the next Live Letter. Anyone know when the next live letter is?

[Ryaz]

Oh wow, seems like the newest gear is actually pretty easy and not difficult at all, even with no procs....sooooo Yoshida, why would you say endgame will require procs and will require careful observation in the Dengeki interview....but when the patch drops, that turns out to be a complete lie? You even said the endgame recipes will encourage people not to use macros....that is NOT true. This new stuff is 100% macro’able. So, that was a lie too.

What’s the point of lying in a Dengeki interview like that? What’s the point? It obviously was not a mistranslation either. He’s just going to leave us in the dark about why he lied like that?

Don't know about you but I had to rely on HQ mats and procs to craft my crafting pieces. It got easier with each piece as you'd expect, but I had to get lucky on the HQ for my first two pieces. And that was with food/tea. I cheered whenever I could proc precise touch or intensive synth.

Then again, I only had 518 base CP, so I had to be more careful.

[CookiesNCreams]

Don't know about you but I had to rely on HQ mats and procs to craft my crafting pieces. It got easier with each piece as you'd expect, but I had to get lucky on the HQ for my first two pieces. And that was with food/tea. I cheered whenever I could proc precise touch or intensive synth.

Then again, I only had 528 base CP, so I had to be more careful.

It could be because my stats are a bit higher. I wasn’t even melded that well when I made the gear. So the difficulty definitely did not change at all. Also, Yoshida mentioned that procs would be required to HQ a craft, so that tells you instantly it didn’t change endgame recipes. So I assume 5.2 must be the “promised land” hardcore players are seeking.

[Ryaz]

It could be because my stats are a bit higher. I wasn’t even melded that well when I made the gear. So the difficulty definitely did not change at all. Also, Yoshida mentioned that procs would be required to HQ a craft, so that tells you instantly it didn’t change endgame recipes. So I assume 5.2 must be the “promised land” hardcore players are seeking.

Well, for people have have the best HA hear fully overmelded you'd expect it to be a lot easier for them while most people who have great gear and meld/overmeld a bit will rely more on procs.

It's like people who do ex trials... it's going to be easy to hit those DPS checks in proper gear vs being dicey if undergeared and requiring some skill and proper skill use.

I'm not exactly sure what the promised land is for hardcore crafters other than failing most of your crafts with a small chance at success. But then you're back to the RNG part of failure, which no one really likes.

[CookiesNCreams]

But then you're back to the RNG part of failure, which no one really likes.

“No one” isn’t really accurate. There are actually quite a few people that didn’t mind crafting’s rng endgame. They just aren’t very vocal on the forums anymore. Most of them quit playing once crafting endgame was trivialized. But I still have hope it’ll happen. That’s why I made this thread, because something we love shouldn’t be butchered because casual players say so.

Anyways, yeah rng sucks but there’s no possible way to make the crafting system skill based. It’s just too math oriented. They are left with easy endgame, or rng endgame.

[Ryaz]

“No one” isn’t really accurate. There are actually quite a few people that didn’t mind crafting’s rng endgame. They just aren’t very vocal on the forums anymore. Most of them quit playing once crafting endgame was trivialized. But I still have hope it’ll happen. That’s why I made this thread, because something we love shouldn’t be butchered because casual players say so.

Anyways, yeah rng sucks but there’s no possible way to make the crafting system skill based. It’s just too math oriented. They are left with easy endgame, or rng endgame.

The RNG system doesn't sit well with me. I know it's tough to make crafting more skill-based, but RNG isn't fun either. When I fail in a raid or trial, it's because I didn't play optimally. I didn't push my DPS enough or I got hit by attacks I shouldn't have or because I failed a mechanic. When you fail crafting due to RNG despite following optimal rotations and doing everything you possibly can to get it right but then it fails because of a roll of the dice (ie, you didn't get any procs), then the failure isn't on you. You were basically screwed over by something completely outside of your control. To me that's just not fun and I'd have to believe that people who enjoy that are a little masochistic. Lol. It's basically being punished despite doing everything right.

To me there's nothing actually hardcore about that.

You're suggestions about harder crafts requiring timing in crafting, like hitting touches at the right time, would be more in line with what skilled crafting should be.

[CookiesNCreams]

The RNG system doesn't sit well with me. I know it's tough to make crafting more skill-based, but RNG isn't fun either. When I fail in a raid or trial, it's because I didn't play optimally. I didn't push my DPS enough or I got hit by attacks I shouldn't have or because I failed a mechanic. When you fail crafting due to RNG despite following optimal rotations and doing everything you possibly can to get it right but then it fails because of a roll of the dice (ie, you didn't get any procs), then the failure isn't on you. You were basically screwed over by something completely outside of your control. To me that's just not fun and I'd have to believe that people who enjoy that are a little masochistic. Lol. It's basically being punished despite doing everything right.

To me there's nothing actually hardcore about that.

You're suggestions about harder crafts requiring timing in crafting, like hitting touches at the right time, would be more in line with what skilled crafting should be.

I dunno about “masochistic”, I think it’s more about wanting something challenging, even if it’s based on luck. It’s basically fake difficulty, but if that’s all they can give hardcore players, then that’s honestly better than nothing.

I’m really happy for casual players, I really am, but I just wish some of them would stop being a bit selfish and only thinking about them, and think about how hardcore players feel. Endgame crafting should be a bit more challenging. If not endgame, at least make Ishgard challenging. And update Ishgard every patch just like PvP Feast.

It’s gotten to a point where a well known youtuber who crafts a lot on Cerberus has addressed easy crafting once again, and, according to the comments I’ve read on this video, he will be making a video on this specific topic soon. https://youtu.be/d4UMCfWofVw

[rd77]

I dunno about “masochistic”, I think it’s more about wanting something challenging, even if it’s based on luck. It’s basically fake difficulty, but if that’s all they can give hardcore players, then that’s honestly better than nothing.

I agree, rng is a necessary evil in crafting. But if you know what you're doing and are properly geared, you can work around bad rng 98% of the time. Those other 2% will hurt. a lot

I’m really happy for casual players, I really am, but I just wish some of them would stop being a bit selfish and only thinking about them, and think about how hardcore players feel. Endgame crafting should be a bit more challenging. If not endgame, at least make Ishgard challenging. And update Ishgard every patch just like PvP Feast.

It’s gotten to a point where a well known youtuber who crafts a lot on Cerberus has addressed easy crafting once again, and, according to the comments I’ve read on this video, he will be making a video on this specific topic soon.

I was so disheartened when I first saw his first video of an 80** craft. Minimum HQ mats requirements. Stupid, stupid rotation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwn8n8uFiKA

They should lower the barrier of entry, of course. Start crafting should be easy. And Button bloat was a problem and should be addressed. But crafting in this state is just bad. No challenge at all. And Ishgard may be a band-aid. And maybe a good one but I was hoping for a more permanent solution. Let's see what they bring with 5.2

People hate when there are comparisons to battle content but I really think it is appropriate: Very few people do Savage so, lets remove the enrage timer and give a permanent echo (or Brilliant Conviction) so people will try to do it more and anyone doing their 1-2-3 without even touching an oGCD will be able to clear it.

[CookiesNCreams]

I agree, rng is a necessary evil in crafting. But if you know what you're doing and are properly geared, you can work around bad rng 98% of the time. Those other 2% will hurt. a lot



I was so disheartened when I first saw his first video of an 80** craft. Minimum HQ mats requirements. Stupid, stupid rotation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwn8n8uFiKA

They should lower the barrier of entry, of course. Start crafting should be easy. And Button bloat was a problem and should be addressed. But crafting in this state is just bad. No challenge at all. And Ishgard may be a band-aid. And maybe a good one but I was hoping for a more permanent solution. Let's see what they bring with 5.2

People hate when there are comparisons to battle content but I really think it is appropriate: Very few people do Savage so, lets remove the enrage timer and give a permanent echo (or Brilliant Conviction) so people will try to do it more and anyone doing their 1-2-3 without even touching an oGCD will be able to clear it.

I 100% agree! Yeah, Ishgard seems likely what he means by “difficult recipes”, but if it’s all endgame recipes, that’s cool too obviously. If it IS in fact Ishgard though, the rewards should be:

1. High stat or exclusive gear and tools
2. Something very valuable on the marketboard worth millions of Gil
3. Lewd glam. (Let’s be honest...if it’s glam, and not lewd glam like 2B’s butt, nobody will do it lol)

I’m sure Yoshida knows this, so I’m sure the rewards will be good. Also, people dismiss raiding comparisons to crafting endgame because they have some strange inferiority complex that they can’t “compete”, and that “elitist crafters are evil! REEEEE”..... so they want crafting nerfed into the ground.

Yoshida is a good person for listening to hardcore crafters this time. I was honestly about to quit my subscription if it wasn’t for that, lol. Crafting was obviously never intended to be easy (e.g 2.x crafting), so they essentially butchered the difficulty because so many casual crafters were causing uproars. But you know what? If they can start uproars, so can we. And I really hope this thread fulfills that mission.

[MegaStix]

Yah, it’s too easy. Needs to be nerfed big time.