Not enjoying the 5.1 Ninja changes

[Raginroxas]

Anyone know how the Japanese player base feels about the changes? Im curious to see what they think about them since it seems the NA player base is pretty split on the overall changes.

[Jeffries]

Jumping in here since I don't see another thread about NIN.

The changes are awful. Idk what else to say without breaking into a rant. I can't believe they'd change it this much two weeks before ult.

[Gallagos]

Yeah, would be very interested to see how the JP community feels about 5.1 NIN.

Mudra's on GCD feel off, especially for where NIN has been. I get where people with not great ping are coming from, it making the class more playable. But, it just feels so weird, and the flow is so broken now. I think the Mudra's should be off-gcd, have a .5/.7 second timer between them, and fine, give Ninutsu a 1.5 second gcd. Breaking the flow of attack cast -> mudra feels not great.

The TCJ change was great though, keep that.

And 5.1 Shadowfang is terrible. Why the F is the cooldown so long. Please bring back old Shadowfang.

[Satarn]

I think the Ninjutsu changes bring up something I've been thinking about for a while now, regarding other job reworks and feedback as well: is it really worth "fixing" high latency(and to a degree also "clunk") issues on certain jobs?

What is the reason people ask for a job to be made less ping reliant? So that people with high ping can play the job comfortably.
Why won't these people just play other jobs which don't have such ping issues then? Because they want to play this specific job.
All right, but if resolving latency issues requires to change job's mechanics so much that the original feeling is lost, then aren't you kind of playing a different job anyways and also removing a job other people had no issue playing before?

Keep in mind I am not saying that changes in regards to latency should never be made, nor that Ninjutsu didn't require some. What I am saying however, is that perhaps SE should put more effort into making subtler changes which won't alter the mechanic too much and in case it's impossible, it might sometimes be better to just "deal with it" and leave things as they were. I don't think making everything always work 100% perfectly is really worth discarding play-styles and mechanics people are enjoying.

Another issue is that SE didn't just alter Ninjutsu, but made a huge amount of changes to coodowns, resource generation and the dot combo all at once.
To be frank I think the idea of entire job "reworks" is overall not something that's good for the game design. People often complain when SE does small changes in a patch rater than giving a full rework, but I think it'd be better if they actually made gradual changes like this(perhaps more often than they do right now) based on constant feedback, rather than multiple huge changes in a single patch. A lot of broken mechanics could be fixed with subtler tweaks, but when you take the sledge-hammer approach not only does it often kill things people did enjoy about a job, but is also way harder to reverse in case it's not received well.

[Duskane]

Why should Ping of all things NEED to be a factor for people to pick a job instead of Gameplay or Aesthetic

[Vallerie]

I think the Ninjutsu changes bring up something I've been thinking about for a while now, regarding other job reworks and feedback as well: is it really worth "fixing" high latency(and to a degree also "clunk") issues on certain jobs?

What is the reason people ask for a job to be made less ping reliant? So that people with high ping can play the job comfortably.
Why won't these people just play other jobs which don't have such ping issues then? Because they want to play this specific job.
All right, but if resolving latency issues requires to change job's mechanics so much that the original feeling is lost, then aren't you kind of playing a different job anyways and also removing a job other people had no issue playing before?

Well, reasons for this are likely as varied as people are, but I can give you my point of view on this. I simply really like theme and visual style of the job, which you may not care about, or care about much less than gameplay.

As it was, and having experienced both low and high ping play, it felt kinda really bad, with inputs registering at varying speeds or noth registering at all, but no job is thematically similar to this, and it was a major bummer I couldn't play it properly. I haven't really expressed this all that much on the forums however. And of course, I would be lying if I said I wasn't happy about finally being able to play this job without many of those issues, or having those issues lessened.

[Shurrikhan]

Why should Ping of all things NEED to be a factor for people to pick a job instead of Gameplay or Aesthetic

Because ping is most often "allowed for" by sacrificing the gameplay itself instead of improving how that gameplay interacts with ping.

In the end, it's gameplay-and-ping vs. (diluted-gameplay-and-)aesthetic.

[Duskane]

Because ping is most often "allowed for" by sacrificing the gameplay itself instead of improving how that gameplay interacts with ping.

In the end, it's gameplay-and-ping vs. (diluted-gameplay-and-)aesthetic.

But to say "go play something else" because your ping isn't good enough is not right

Especially in a game that lets you freely play classes

[Orbus]

A casual player might not even understand ping or how it could be a problem, or heck, they could actually be really good at the class but be tech illiterate so they just think they suck at class when the real problem is they have crappy wifi.
Obviously you have to draw a line somewhere on class flexibility vs whatever toaster the player is playing on, but I don't think needing to live next to the servers to play a class is a good place to draw it.

[Duskane]

Exactly i know there has to be a limit and can't make every class suitable for people who live in a tin shack out in Humpty doo
But there also should be a limit to how ping intensive some jobs are
Ninja needed the change especially if they want to keep expanding on mudras like they did in ShB
Machinist also needs some change to heat blast/wild fire its just too much sometimes