A good old boyish cott

[Nonocu]

Healing is boring now but I don't trust other healers enough to do the job.

[Billythepancake]

Healing is boring now but I don't trust other healers enough to do the job.

Has definitely been my experience. I'd still rather deal with a bad healer rather than being stuck with it, but I've noticed almost every healer I've gotten as a GNB has been anywhere between barely passable to downright awful. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oh well.

[LariaKirin]

*Sigh*

Girl, whatever. Players like you are part of the problem. And guess what? You’ve already won. You got stripped down, brain dead healers and are successfully chasing decent players away from the role, and game, altogether.

I’ve been maining healers longer than I can count at this point, and this is hands down the worst iteration of the role. Period. Did you know that back in 2.0 we had to HARD CAST heals because we weren’t oGCD gods? And we still had downtime to DPS. But at least it was interesting.

This...whatever this is, is no longer fun. But go ahead, tell me that I don’t deserve to have fun in a game I’ve spent hundreds of dollars and hours on for your sake. Seems fair.

Go ahead and ignore those of us who just want to enjoy the game again. Please, actually, just ignore us. Don’t come at us and tell us to play other roles. Don’t you dare. Just shove off and keep pressing your 1-2 combination and smiling simply as you do.

You win. Happy?

I'm simply calling out your misrepresentation of that thread.

I don't know what triggered your emotional rant, but don't take it personally.

[Ceasaria]

Long text

Usually I do new contents as healer.
But I read this thread, and I remember what I feeled when I compared my SCH, WHM and SAM experience on Innocence EX.
For the 1st time on this game, I had more fun with a dps than with a healer.

It's always fun to heal new content for the first time and especially raid 24 where the chaos rules.
But after thinking about this, I am telling myself that try and survive as SAM could be more fun (and less annoying than rez dozen of times in 20 min combat lenght).

So yeah, apart playing healer with my raid group, I will now play SAM in roulette (it will fit well Nier raid, furthermore ^^).
You have my vote !

[Maeka]

Has definitely been my experience. I'd still rather deal with a bad healer rather than being stuck with it, but I've noticed almost every healer I've gotten as a GNB has been anywhere between barely passable to downright awful. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oh well.

Assuming you are talking about Duty Finder, as long as people aren't dying, maybe one shouldn't be so picky?

I don't know about anybody else, but personally when I Q up for Duty Finder, and we simply get through the dungeon without people dying, I'm happy with that. What I hate are tanks who overpull and wipe the group when they aren't geared to do such overpulling (or they don't use their mitigation buttons properly), or worse when a tank overpulls and then proceeds to try that very same pull again but with the healer's stuff on cooldown thinking that is somehow going to work, or when healers decide to just let people drop dead because they were too busy spamming their DPS spell, or what-not.

But if we get through a dungeon and the healer and tank ensure there are no wipes, I'm happy. Heck, I'm happy even if we do wipe once or twice, provided such wipe was for a reasonable reason. Accidents can happen, I'm not one of those spoiled brats who drop group at the first wipe. I'm not a quitter like some people I've seen in duty finder who drop group if there's one wipe. Or worse, somebody who drops group if they see newbie bonus in a trial.

I think people are just plain getting spoiled and they want Savage-level performance out of Non-Savage players which make up the vast majority of the playerbase and they gripe, grumble, and groan because your average player just doesn't play at that level. It's why I have really gotten this dislike towards many of the vocal savage players who are quick to look down their nose at the common player. Yeah, sorry I'm not top percentile. But I don't let my groups wipe either, under normal circumstances.

It's attitudes like this that really annoy me, when people say "almost every healer .... has been between barely passable to downright awful". That's complete hyperbole, because I have seen plenty of healers in my duty finder who do just fine and not let the groups wipe. But then I suppose if "downright awful" means being anything less than the top 10% on FFLogs, then.... *shrug* Maybe you should just stick to only doing Roulettes with your FC, that way the rest of us wouldn't have to deal with attitudes like this. Sounds like it'd be a win-win for everybody involved, to be honest.

One can have the biggest Seattle Space Needle nose in the world, but as long as it's in Seattle far away from where I can see it, then I don't care. But if you stick that thing in my backyard, then I care.

And I love it when people talk like "Oh, the GOOD players like US are leaving the game because of crappy players like YOU" .... well, you know what? Go ahead. The rest of us, the majority, will continue to happily play while the vocal minority ragequits. Don't act like you're God's Gift to FFXIV. That makes you look very self-entitled and it's rather unbecoming.

[Sylvain]

I'd sell my time for roulette queue XD
healer lf roulette partner, 250k for expert

[Maeka]

I'd sell my time for roulette queue XD
healer lf roulette partner, 250k for expert

And this leads me to something else that annoys me highly... healers who think that people should pay them for a mutually beneficial arrangement. You go into Expert to get your Phantasmagoria, just like the rest of the group, but YOU think you deserve 250,000 gil just to give other players the privileged of Qing up with you.

It just sounds like an over abundance of self-worth and self-pride IMO.

I happily Q up every day as healer and while I don't top logs, people rarely die under my watch unless they do something that can't be healed through. Well, I was doing that until I capped Phantasmagoria on my healer.

[Aurturia]

And this leads me to something else that annoys me highly... healers who think that people should pay them for a mutually beneficial arrangement. You go into Expert to get your Phantasmagoria, just like the rest of the group, but YOU think you deserve 250,000 gil just to give other players the privileged of Qing up with you.

It just sounds like an over abundance of self-worth and self-pride IMO.

I happily Q up every day as healer and while I don't top logs, people rarely die under my watch unless they do something that can't be healed through. Well, I was doing that until I capped Phantasmagoria on my healer.

It's not really about deserve I think. At the end of the day you're not paying for the right to have a healer, you're paying to cut the front of the line. It's less "I demand payment for my service" then it is "sure I'll accept money for something I might have done anyways" because hey free money.

It's not like you HAVE to pay to get in a roulette. I for one gave up my healing fast pass, and I dont think a 10 minute queue is all that bad.

[Saefinn]

And I love it when people talk like "Oh, the GOOD players like US are leaving the game because of crappy players like YOU" .... well, you know what? Go ahead. The rest of us, the majority, will continue to happily play while the vocal minority ragequits. Don't act like you're God's Gift to FFXIV. That makes you look very self-entitled and it's rather unbecoming.

Before assuming what they meant by "barely passable to downright awful" check what they meant by it. Because people's measure of what is "good" and "bad" is variable. To me passable would be, "we struggled a lot, it was a difficult pass, but we got there" and downright awful would be "it's a horrible dungeon run, deaths all over, they struggled a lot, we really had to clench it with some carrying, it was a mess all over the place, the healer didn't listen at all". I've been in a lot of the same threads as Billy and have yet to see something as elitist and mean spirited as you're suggesting, though of course Billy can speak for themselves in this respect.

But most of the people I've been engaging on this forum who are unhappy with the changes have been fine with players who don't play at a savage level and don't care so much if people aren't playing optimally. In most content it doesn't matter. It is only savage & ultimate where it does matter.

Your biggest issue with the compromise I suggested was how it'd affect people what jobs people favour in such content. As long as all jobs are capable of passing content, it's really only the high percentile groups that care about meta who exclude players based on their job choice (or expect them to change). And non-high percentile groups who don't know better.

Nobody here is suggesting we chase out casual players, so I don't see why you're okay with chasing out people who aren't enjoying things the way you are?

And it's not just hardcore players, elitists and savage players who're unhappy. It's not just casuals who're happy (eg: a friend who is one of the server's top Monks for savage seems to be enjoying WHM).

I'm not even a savage player myself, I don't consider myself hardcore, there's plenty of healers who're a lot better than me and nor do I look down on players who struggle. I think it is good they can be accommodated. People play for the social aspect, the story, the roleplay and may enjoy the fights, content and so on.

But I'm still getting 30-60% downtime in my runs of content I do and getting bored of spamming the same thing over and over in that downtime. My co-healer is exactly the same, who's a WHM.

A low skill floor is perfectly acceptable.
But the ceiling doesn't need to be low either (and not boring).

There's multiple ways both can be accommodated. But to accept them as players we need to:

• Set aside our obsession with "optimal" play in content where it doesn't matter
• Accept our comfortable way of playing may not be the optimal way of playing.

[Maeka]

Before assuming what they meant by "barely passable to downright awful" check what they meant by it. Because people's measure of what is "good" and "bad" is variable. To me passable would be, "we struggled a lot, it was a difficult pass, but we got there" and downright awful would be "it's a horrible dungeon run, deaths all over, they struggled a lot, we really had to clench it with some carrying, it was a mess all over the place, the healer didn't listen at all". I've been in a lot of the same threads as Billy and have yet to see something as elitist and mean spirited as you're suggesting, though of course Billy can speak for themselves in this respect.

I get the impression that "bad" in the eyes of someone like the one I quoted is more like "OMG that dungeon run took us 25 minutes! My FC coulda done it in 15!" even if there were no deaths.

I certainly have encountered people grumbling on both forums and occasionally in-game, about "meh" DPS and not being able to pull multiple groups because of a healer not being geared up or something. Or worse, when DPS get impatient and wanna start pulling extra groups even if the tank and healer don't think it's a good idea. Or the tank grabbing extra mobs when he shouldn't, and causes a wipe and everybody proceeds to blame the healer.

But most of the people I've been engaging on this forum who are unhappy with the changes have been fine with players who don't play at a savage level and don't care so much if people aren't playing optimally. In most content it doesn't matter. It is only savage & ultimate where it does matter.

But yet they are suggesting changes that would impact the whole game, negatively for a large number of players that are more casual?

Your biggest issue with the compromise I suggested was how it'd affect people what jobs people favour in such content. As long as all jobs are capable of passing content, it's really only the high percentile groups that care about meta who exclude players based on their job choice (or expect them to change). And non-high percentile groups who don't know better.

My biggest complaint against the proposed compromise was I don't think it would be a good thing when you make one job significantly more difficult or easy over another. Again we'll go back to the Dave thing: What if somebody likes the Aesthetics that Dave brings but doesn't want Dave to be that boring? What if a casual enjoys the aesthetics of AST, but can't hack the complicated playstyle? Should both be locked out of enjoying those jobs?

And it's not just hardcore players, elitists and savage players who're unhappy. It's not just casuals who're happy (eg: a friend who is one of the server's top Monks for savage seems to be enjoying WHM).

I suppose that's a good point, it's just a few vocal minority that are raising their voices the loudest. I wonder what the actual % of players are who are content. 80%? 90%? 70%? Who knows. SE seems to think it's the vast majority who like the content otherwise they'd change it.

A low skill floor is perfectly acceptable.
But the ceiling doesn't need to be low either (and not boring).

If they can devise some way of making things "Interesting" but yet not make said changes "required" or people start dying or we get flak in groups, well.... ok, fine.

If I can still log on the "hardest" job and still clear most Duty Finder content, and not get chewed out of groups or wipes happen because they made the job too complex, then the people who so eagerly want such things can have their extra 2-3 DPS buttons that adds 10% DPS or what-not.

There's multiple ways both can be accommodated. But to accept them as players we need to:

• Set aside our obsession with "optimal" play in content where it doesn't matter
• Accept our comfortable way of playing may not be the optimal way of playing.

Good luck getting people to do the first point...