Dear SE, stop homogenizing jobs

[Barraind]

talk about revisionist history or someone who didn't play EQ1. it was actually the "raid guilds" that wanted smaller raids and for the devs to "stop the zerging of content" not the casuals

Pretty much. Think our world first ToV kills had like 100 people, and our first Emp Ssrsa kill had 112 people, because we boxed shaman and bards and clerics since there was no reason not to. Our knights needed to be doing SOMETHING when we were add tanking. Then we got to the first live version of VT and I cannot express exactly how I felt about that zone without getting banned on these forums, though we did have something like 12 alt, box and casual mages parked there to CoH us past broken spawns, and it STILL DIDNT FEEL LIKE ENOUGH.

PoP having 72 person raids meant a lot less burnout and a LOT less "I guess I -can- play this buffbot, so I suppose I should". And the raid zones were mostly absent weekend-ruining bugs.

. because as with most raiders if there is a way to exclude people from content and make them feel superior they are all about it.

thats a stupid take though. We didnt like having to cart hundreds of people around to things. It turned into a logistical mess.

I never saw people in subpar gear not knowing how their class worked expecting to be getting carried

I'm gonna say you didnt tank or heal or charm then, or you would have dragged countless people through Kyv Heartstriker PLEASEGODMAKEITSTOPINEEDANADULT and his ability to 1-round a tank from full if he felt like it.

Seriously though, I handled recruitment for Knights in a few expansions, and I denied a LOT of apps from people who thought they didnt need a haste item, or were wearing groupable velious era gear in PoP. I was responsible for our rule that if you could upgrade any piece of your gear in the bazaar (excluding the couple best in slot tradable items) you didnt get in. And if you were IN the guild and that applied to you, you werent getting plate until you upgraded it first. you could get leather though, because we got like 20 pieces of leather for every 1 plate drop (we went from Elemental planes in PoP to Tunat in Tacvi until we had a 3rd pair of plate pants drop. We averaged 4 leather pants per raid week)

[RoyalBeef]

Pretty much. Think our world first ToV kills had like 100 people, and our first Emp Ssrsa kill had 112 people, because we boxed shaman and bards and clerics since there was no reason not to. Our knights needed to be doing SOMETHING when we were add tanking. Then we got to the first live version of VT and I cannot express exactly how I felt about that zone without getting banned on these forums, though we did have something like 12 alt, box and casual mages parked there to CoH us past broken spawns, and it STILL DIDNT FEEL LIKE ENOUGH.

PoP having 72 person raids meant a lot less burnout and a LOT less "I guess I -can- play this buffbot, so I suppose I should". And the raid zones were mostly absent weekend-ruining bugs.




I'm gonna say you didnt tank or heal or charm then, or you would have dragged countless people through Kyv Heartstriker PLEASEGODMAKEITSTOPINEEDANADULT.

Seriously though, I handled recruitment for Knights in a few expansions, and I denied a LOT of apps from people who thought they didnt need a haste item, or were wearing groupable velious era gear in PoP. I was responsibler for our rule that if you could upgrade any piece of your gear in the bazaar (excluding the couple best in slot tradable items) you didnt get in. And if you were IN the guild and that applied to you, you werent getting plate until you upgraded it first.

I played brd, I had to pull that shit ^^ But no we did guild exclusive groups only, who in their right mind would takerandoms there? I mean later when level cap was raised and people in OOW gear were EXPing in KT sure, but not when it was current content lol.

[Barraind]

who in their right mind would takerandoms there

Apps (sadly) need flags too.

Honestly if you had an enchanter who was good, running that DZ was fantastic AA, you just sometimes didnt finish and hated yourself later.

If we had todays charm pet implementation with that zone back then, it would have been stupidly easy.

[RoyalBeef]

Apps (sadly) need flags too.

Honestly if you had an enchanter who was good, running that DZ was fantastic AA, you just sometimes didnt finish and hated yourself later.

They were usually at least ele geared, so they knew what they were doing. A few time runs to get them decked out wasn't too bad. As in not FF14 folks showing up in lv 50 AF gear for lv 70+ content bad ^^

Yeah charmed mobs were fkn broken, but the living on the edge risk vs reward factor was amazing

[purgatori]

As the title indicates, jobs have become far too homogenized in ShB. Fun should come before raid balance.

Agree 1000%. This ain't Wildstar, so the rest of the game should not be sacrificed for the ~5% of the community who do Savage (that doesn't mean leaving them out in the cold either, but the compromise should always cut in the direction of what's going to be fun for the majority of players). I'll always praise ShB as being an amazing expansion for what it has, and is, doing for the story and lore, but the gameplay experience has been gutted, particularly for tanks and healers, who are both dead boring to play now.

[Grann-Goro]

As long as people will ask for new jobs to be added, SE will be forced to homogenize jobs, so no job combinaison becomes too much stronger than others.

In other words : stop asking for new jobs !

For a game where parties are made with only 8 people, they are already far too many jobs currently !

[Reyna_Balmore]

Agreed, besides the DPS Role, there's very little variance between the jobs in the Tank / Healer role. Tank being the worst offender..... IMO (In my opinion)

[Reyna_Balmore]

As long as people will ask for new jobs to be added, SE will be forced to homogenize jobs, so no job combinaison becomes too much stronger than others.

In other words : stop asking for new jobs !

For a game where parties are made with only 8 people, they are already far too many jobs currently !

Sucks, but there's some truth to your words sadly

[Apopopo]

I would argue that it is not fun playing a job unwanted in raid because other jobs perform the role better. (War in 2.0, PLD in 3.x, Whm in 3.3+, all of 4.x, SAM in 4.x and 5.0, MCH in 4.x)

Also, jobs have not been homogenized. Roles have. Jobs within a role have to be able to perform the same in certain circumstances or you could be in an instance set up for failure because a certain job isn't there.

war got fixed relatively early in 2.x, so that ones null, pld had incredibly meta situations where it was useful, ie cover shenanigans which let you completely bypass some mechanics, so it was most definitely still used in 3.x, the only reason people memed was because block didn't work on magic yet. whm was world first for both ucob and uwu, idk what you're talking about bro, it was definitely still used and fine, sam was perfectly fine in 4.x it was even used for world first bcob, mch was actually also preferred over brd for speedkills due to its personal dps.

tl;dr: you're wrong, just because a job isn't the best doesn't mean it's not usable in content, your argument has zero ground and is the reason we're stuck in an over homogenized environment where jobs lose more and more of what made them unique every expansion.

[purgatori]

As long as people will ask for new jobs to be added, SE will be forced to homogenize jobs, so no job combinaison becomes too much stronger than others.

In other words : stop asking for new jobs !

For a game where parties are made with only 8 people, they are already far too many jobs currently !

That's only a problem for the high-end raiding scene. So no, the problem isn't "adding too many jobs." (Though I think we might have enough DPS now... That might be an unpopular opinion)