Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[wereotter]

Yeah but I think this is the core of the issue. While they were trying to appease two groups, I think it ended up making more problems. Now you have people wanting the opposite sex counterpart. And why not? Why shouldnt female players get a female beast girl if they want one? Why shouldnt male players get a jungle bunny boy? Lore reasons arent good enough, particularly if we know the devs decision was more to do with work load limitations.

I think that it's also fair to consider the amount of work required versus the reward for doing so. Female Hrothgar would require a lot of work to create and model, and while I'm all for them, it's likely very few players would actually pick them up (see the companion thread to this requesting them, as well as the Eorzean census that shows how rarely played the existing similar races are, female roes and female highlanders)

It would have taken a lot of effort to implement for not much payoff in the form of new or returning players and fantasia sales, especially compared to female Viera.

Conversely male Viera would have the potential to be VERY polarizing, and I can see why they might want to play it safe and just not touch it. It has the potential to be highly popular, but we've seen even within this thread how many different ideas people have had regarding how they would want them to look. For instance, I would prefer them to be based off the highlander model. Others want a build closer to the elezen, and others want them to be the opposite gender dimorphism to the Au Ra with very small and thin males. If you pick one, then you've upset probably two thirds of the player base, and while it will draw press for being the first time we've seen them, it has a very high chance of not getting people to actually play as that sex if it doesn't look how they envisioned it.

So it's safer to tread familiar ground on both instances. Female viera, which we already know what they look like and have been requested for many years, and male Ronso, which we know what they look like and meet the request for a more beastial race.

Is this what I wanted to see? No. I even tried for a while to make the existing Viera models look male, but changed back when I just couldn't eliminate enough of the breasts, and didn't like how many of my glamor items turned into mini skirts, or just couldn't be used at all... and didn't like how all the dialogue and titles referred to me as female. So I too hope that we'll see this finished... I'm just not holding my breath since it's a pretty risky financial decision for Square to do in this game.

[Crushnight]

I think that it's also fair to consider the amount of work required versus the reward for doing so. Female Hrothgar would require a lot of work to create and model, and while I'm all for them, it's likely very few players would actually pick them up (see the companion thread to this requesting them, as well as the Eorzean census that shows how rarely played the existing similar races are, female roes and female highlanders)

It would have taken a lot of effort to implement for not much payoff in the form of new or returning players and fantasia sales, especially compared to female Viera.

Conversely male Viera would have the potential to be VERY polarizing, and I can see why they might want to play it safe and just not touch it. It has the potential to be highly popular, but we've seen even within this thread how many different ideas people have had regarding how they would want them to look. For instance, I would prefer them to be based off the highlander model. Others want a build closer to the elezen, and others want them to be the opposite gender dimorphism to the Au Ra with very small and thin males. If you pick one, then you've upset probably two thirds of the player base, and while it will draw press for being the first time we've seen them, it has a very high chance of not getting people to actually play as that sex if it doesn't look how they envisioned it.

See I would like to think that but male Hrothgar became a thing which by all accounts was a far bigger gamble than what male Viera would be on a financial level. Male Hrothgar base model is a modified roe even down to weapon holding, male roe were(still are) the least played male characters, so if SE had taken any other male model for male Viera it would have been more popular than Hrothgar is now which has not beaten out male Elezen.

So if it was trying to get the most money out of consumers anything other than the male roe body type would be a projected increase over the male roe body type, yet SE went with it, now while male Hrothgar certainly added more diversity over what male Viera could accomplish, it was a stupid move from a financial standpoint because they were putting more stock in hopes than straight figures as literally any other body type(modified to suit) would've provided more sales of fantasia.

So it's safer to tread familiar ground on both instances. Female viera, which we already know what they look like and have been requested for many years, and male Ronso, which we know what they look like and meet the request for a more beastial race.

Is this what I wanted to see? No. I even tried for a while to make the existing Viera models look male, but changed back when I just couldn't eliminate enough of the breasts, and didn't like how many of my glamor items turned into mini skirts, or just couldn't be used at all... and didn't like how all the dialogue and titles referred to me as female. So I too hope that we'll see this finished... I'm just not holding my breath since it's a pretty risky financial decision for Square to do in this game.

We already know roughly what a female Ronso(Hrothgar) would look like if they were really trying to be as close to them as possible not too much wiggle room on aesthetics, whereas male Viera have never been depicted ever, no art, nothing just background information even the art in OP is a sketch of what they COULD look like nothing official so people are a lot more free to design them however they want the only real requirements are they are male(duh) and have rabbit ears(another duh), anything else is free to interpretation until they are officially added to a game.

It has also been over a decade with never depicting them and at this stage, i feel like people are getting tired with being teased by SE over them, like why is it such a problem for SE to show off a bunny dude, we know why they aren't implemented in this game (currently) but it also didn't help that Yoshi P stupidly gave the lore excuse on stage rather than being 100% honest with the playerbase, until interviews which took days after the event before we got to see/hear the real reasoning.

Yoshi P really shot himself in the foot on that one, these races release were a nightmare, nightmare for the devs with stupid amount of gear to refit/issues with them(remember Hrothgar OG pegasus ride), nightmare for the playerbase with the limitations and drama over them which is going to be ongoing for who knows how long(most are civil but every so often someone will stir the pot because they can and the less said about twitch chat the better.) , all in all i think it would've been better to focus on 1 singular race and either saved the other for latter or shelve it like open world primals.

Now which race it should've been is very subjective, i would've have liked Hrothgar for their aesthetic, but actually fitting in with the world of FFXIV Viera do it far better. Granted this could be due to actually going to a village of theirs on the 1st so we can try to imagine the Source's villages but i honestly felt like if you changed all the Hrothgar to Roes in ShB apart from the 2 in the GnB questline (literally only those 2 even Runar as great as he is could've been a roe and nothing would change story wise) nothing would've changed whereas if you changed the Viera to Elezen for example(could've changed Fran and it really wouldn''t have impacted the Ivalice story at all) you get a much bigger shift in the Rah'tika section of the story.

I want to see Hrothgars becoming more pronounced going forward which could happen with Twine residents going forward and the surrounding area but most likely going to be untapped potential for awhile unfortunately .

[Melichoir]

I want to see Hrothgars becoming more pronounced going forward which could happen with Twine residents going forward and the surrounding area but most likely going to be untapped potential for awhile unfortunately .

Maybe I missed this in hte MSQ, but from a purely lore stand point, hasnt SE already shot themselves in the foot with Hrothgar? We've pretty much seen every corner of the first that wasnt consumed by the flood. Unless theres some mysterious cave or far off island where every last female hrothgar is, Hrothgar as a race is screwed on the first. Seemingly so is the Viera because raktika is about the last bastion of their people in the wilds, and weve yet to see males. You would think with the world almost coming to an end and everything being obliterated, older norms wouldve gotten thrown out the window. Quite literally if your species is on its last legs, you dont disappear half your race based on sex in a cave or island never to be seen.

These are unfortunate lore implications by having them gendered and the situation on the first. You could argue we dont see female hrothgar or male viera on the source for said lore reasons, but that argument gets a bit ludicrous on the 1st.

Only way I can see them remedying this particular standpoint is to collapse the first completely. Meaning, despite our best efforts through 5.1 and forward, the first is absolutely doomed and can never be recovered and they evacuate the inhabitants of the first to the source somehow via the crystal tower. But thats a pretty ballsy story move - one I doubt theyd make.

[WhiteArchmage]

Maybe I missed this in hte MSQ, but from a purely lore stand point, hasnt SE already shot themselves in the foot with Hrothgar? We've pretty much seen every corner of the first that wasnt consumed by the flood. Unless theres some mysterious cave or far off island where every last female hrothgar is, Hrothgar as a race is screwed on the first. Seemingly so is the Viera because raktika is about the last bastion of their people in the wilds, and weve yet to see males. You would think with the world almost coming to an end and everything being obliterated, older norms wouldve gotten thrown out the window. Quite literally if your species is on its last legs, you dont disappear half your race based on sex in a cave or island never to be seen.

These are unfortunate lore implications by having them gendered and the situation on the first. You could argue we dont see female hrothgar or male viera on the source for said lore reasons, but that argument gets a bit ludicrous on the 1st.

Only way I can see them remedying this particular standpoint is to collapse the first completely. Meaning, despite our best efforts through 5.1 and forward, the first is absolutely doomed and can never be recovered and they evacuate the inhabitants of the first to the source somehow via the crystal tower. But thats a pretty ballsy story move - one I doubt theyd make.

IIRC, the male Viera DO exist in the Greatwood, they're just expertly hidden because one is mentioned in a sidequest, and another Viera is pregnant, which given their isolationist tendencies, means the father is a male Viera. Still, the male population is so small that they probably ARE facing extinction.

FemHroths? Yeah, idk. The only one I recall (from MSQ and only heavily assumed to be a Hroth) is dead. They're doomed.

[Nestama]

after they added male miqote and female roegadyn they did say that they heavily dislike the idea of genderlocked races and were against it hence why they removed it

Didn't think I'd get to ask you again for that source (though I think at the time you said they promised they wouldn't do it again).

[wereotter]

IIRC, the male Viera DO exist in the Greatwood, they're just expertly hidden because one is mentioned in a sidequest, and another Viera is pregnant, which given their isolationist tendencies, means the father is a male Viera. Still, the male population is so small that they probably ARE facing extinction.

FemHroths? Yeah, idk. The only one I recall (from MSQ and only heavily assumed to be a Hroth) is dead. They're doomed.

Female Hrothgar were referenced a few times as I recall... but every time they talked about one, they said that she was dead.

Male Viera were also referenced on the First. They do still exist, but in smaller numbers as many died trying to defend their settlements from the flood of light. Which does leave open the idea that males on the First were not explicitly kept out of the villages like they were on the Source, but now aren't there as they're trying to protect the females in the villages, and many have died. We also can imply on the First that there simply aren't enough males for this job since when we enter that part of the Raktika Greatwood, we aren't stopped by males, but by a pack of female viera. This does not line up with the lore of the race that we knew on Ivalice.

[reivaxe]

See I would like to think that but male Hrothgar became a thing which by all accounts was a far bigger gamble than what male Viera would be on a financial level. Male Hrothgar base model is a modified roe even down to weapon holding, male roe were(still are) the least played male characters, so if SE had taken any other male model for male Viera it would have been more popular than Hrothgar is now which has not beaten out male Elezen.

So if it was trying to get the most money out of consumers anything other than the male roe body type would be a projected increase over the male roe body type, yet SE went with it, now while male Hrothgar certainly added more diversity over what male Viera could accomplish, it was a stupid move from a financial standpoint because they were putting more stock in hopes than straight figures as literally any other body type(modified to suit) would've provided more sales of fantasia.

Would like to point out that according to the census Hrothgar are RN more Played than Elezen males. Given how they went for an far more appealing heroic shape for the males compared to the Roebros I could see the same popularity coming with females (it wouldn't be hard at all for them to be more well liked than female elezen).

The Hrothgar are prob the best example of why you make a new race. A race that adds much needed visual diversity, appeals to different/ unserved people, addresses groups who were not pleased with the current options. Their release marked a decline in Roebros because they were seen as "Big monster bois done right" to many who converted (Cause the Roebros look like big ass meatwall gorillas, not a very appealing shape) ... but no other race's males suffered a decrease at a time where the game was seeing an increase in players and they proceeded to get good numbers regardless of how utterly borked their hair system is. They also add appeal to the game for fans of other MMOs that aren't as weeby as this one. What more could SE ask for? That was why they were made after all.

That's really why you do it. If all SE wanted was to push potions they could just make a few new kitty faces or a "3rd" kitty clan that has different markings and leave it at that. They could slowly add more faces to all the races, would be a hell of a lot more potions for a fraction of the effort and no prema increase in work load. That's pretty much what GW2 does, that game's devs have been fully open about not adding in a new race cause that's a stupid amount of effort for them ... but they did have things like "Oh, THIS expansion we're adding a ton of new faces and hair styles (That address how hard it is to make a black character with the human race)! you gotta buy a kit to change to as that's how our cosmetic system works".

[Crushnight]

Maybe I missed this in hte MSQ, but from a purely lore stand point, hasnt SE already shot themselves in the foot with Hrothgar? We've pretty much seen every corner of the first that wasnt consumed by the flood. Unless theres some mysterious cave or far off island where every last female hrothgar is, Hrothgar as a race is screwed on the first. Seemingly so is the Viera because raktika is about the last bastion of their people in the wilds, and weve yet to see males. You would think with the world almost coming to an end and everything being obliterated, older norms wouldve gotten thrown out the window. Quite literally if your species is on its last legs, you dont disappear half your race based on sex in a cave or island never to be seen.

These are unfortunate lore implications by having them gendered and the situation on the first. You could argue we dont see female hrothgar or male viera on the source for said lore reasons, but that argument gets a bit ludicrous on the 1st.

Only way I can see them remedying this particular standpoint is to collapse the first completely. Meaning, despite our best efforts through 5.1 and forward, the first is absolutely doomed and can never be recovered and they evacuate the inhabitants of the first to the source somehow via the crystal tower. But thats a pretty ballsy story move - one I doubt theyd make.

There are male Viera on the 1st one kills two mobs and saves an female npc from something, heck the quest giver wanted to show you what he was like but couldn't for reasons, we also have had an npc mention their father and given she has nothing discernible from other Viera we can assume that both parents were Viera.

There is also an npc that says you could count the number of males by your hands, now whether this is an exaggeration to say they are in a big decline or truthful who knows.

Would like to point out that according to the census Hrothgar are RN more Played than Elezen males. Given how they went for an far more appealing heroic shape for the males compared to the Roebros I could see the same popularity coming with females (it wouldn't be hard at all for them to be more well liked than female elezen).

The Hrothgar are prob the best example of why you make a new race. A race that adds much needed visual diversity, appeals to different/ unserved people, addresses groups who were not pleased with the current options. Their release marked a decline in Roebros because they were seen as "Big monster bois done right" to many who converted (Cause the Roebros look like big ass meatwall gorillas, not a very appealing shape) ... but no other race's males suffered a decrease at a time where the game was seeing an increase in players and they proceeded to get good numbers regardless of how utterly borked their hair system is. They also add appeal to the game for fans of other MMOs that aren't as weeby as this one. What more could SE ask for? That was why they were made after all.

That's really why you do it. If all SE wanted was to push potions they could just make a few new kitty faces or a "3rd" kitty clan that has different markings and leave it at that. They could slowly add more faces to all the races, would be a hell of a lot more potions for a fraction of the effort and no prema increase in work load. That's pretty much what GW2 does, that game's devs have been fully open about not adding in a new race cause that's a stupid amount of effort for them ... but they did have things like "Oh, THIS expansion we're adding a ton of new faces and hair styles (That address how hard it is to make a black character with the human race)! you gotta buy a kit to change to as that's how our cosmetic system works".

Huh it shifted since i last looked good on Hrothgar, still it was a bigger gamble financially as there was less data to suggest they would have been profitable enough for the resources required. Now i agree Hrothgar do bring more to the table than male Viera would have.

I love their expressive emotes, they look good, and i was one for awhile but the thing that drove me off and eventually off female Viera too is the limiting hairstyles(Hrothgar especially) and hat situation(Bothered me more on Viera than Hrothgar) when one of these gets remedied a bit more i may go back to them but atm i like having more glam options, and i honestly wish the devs took more time before releasing them but they wanted to show off more for the expansion and we have what we have now as a result.

[Lauront]

Maybe I missed this in hte MSQ, but from a purely lore stand point, hasnt SE already shot themselves in the foot with Hrothgar? We've pretty much seen every corner of the first that wasnt consumed by the flood. Unless theres some mysterious cave or far off island where every last female hrothgar is, Hrothgar as a race is screwed on the first. Seemingly so is the Viera because raktika is about the last bastion of their people in the wilds, and weve yet to see males. You would think with the world almost coming to an end and everything being obliterated, older norms wouldve gotten thrown out the window. Quite literally if your species is on its last legs, you dont disappear half your race based on sex in a cave or island never to be seen.

These are unfortunate lore implications by having them gendered and the situation on the first. You could argue we dont see female hrothgar or male viera on the source for said lore reasons, but that argument gets a bit ludicrous on the 1st.

Only way I can see them remedying this particular standpoint is to collapse the first completely. Meaning, despite our best efforts through 5.1 and forward, the first is absolutely doomed and can never be recovered and they evacuate the inhabitants of the first to the source somehow via the crystal tower. But thats a pretty ballsy story move - one I doubt theyd make.

Oh how I wish they would, though, along with making the Zodiark/Hydaelyn arc a morally grey one with uncomfortable revelations and decisions about both gods and not just Zodiark. But yeah, rather improbable. Still, a new Calamity could be that meteor Yoshi keeps joking about dropping on the world again...

Huh it shifted since i last looked good on Hrothgar, still it was a bigger gamble financially as there was less data to suggest they would have been profitable enough for the resources required. Now i agree Hrothgar do bring more to the table than male Viera would have.

At least from a financial standpoint, that's purely speculative and wholly dependent on how they went about the mViera design. In terms of other, subjective criteria, perhaps.

[Melichoir]

Female Hrothgar were referenced a few times as I recall... but every time they talked about one, they said that she was dead.

Male Viera were also referenced on the First. They do still exist, but in smaller numbers as many died trying to defend their settlements from the flood of light. Which does leave open the idea that males on the First were not explicitly kept out of the villages like they were on the Source, but now aren't there as they're trying to protect the females in the villages, and many have died. We also can imply on the First that there simply aren't enough males for this job since when we enter that part of the Raktika Greatwood, we aren't stopped by males, but by a pack of female viera. This does not line up with the lore of the race that we knew on Ivalice.

The latter part of this is pretty much the issue with Male Viera on the first. If theyre still out there, why are they hiding? If its to protect the females, the MSQ dispells this as its female viera who engage us. If its to protect the males as there are few left, having them scattered to the wind in the wild where there are monsters and sin eaters seems extremely counter productive. This is particularly an issue when the real last viera city/settlement (Fanow?) is pretty much the most protected area the viera have (outside of the ruins). So you would expect to see men there, of all places. This isnt like protecting the ruins and upholding some tradition, so much as if you lose all of your men, your race is more or less done.

Yeah, I love the MSQ but some of the implications given here pretty much mean that things are up 'S' creek for some peoples on the first, despite beating the boss or what were doing with Eden.