let talk future jobs

[LauraAdalena]

Maybe unpopular opinion but after a new healer I feel like SE should stop making new jobs every expansion and let the battle team focus on making the existing jobs more exciting. The more new jobs we get the harder it is for SE to balance those jobs while making them feel unique.

I'd agree if we didn't have an imbalance between Healer and Tank, personally I think we need one more healer, one more caster, and then maybe one more Phys Ranged. And no, not counting limited jobs.

Chemist for healer seems obvious.

Chemist for Healer

I see so many people suggest this. Please no, or if we do get it don't call it "chemist" because it's already way too similar in name to "Alchemist" the crafting job we have.

EDIT: Also, doesn't that mean we technically already have it in the game? IDK that's just my opinion.

[Rai_Takara]

I see so many people suggest this. Please no, or if we do get it don't call it "chemist" because it's already way too similar in name to "Alchemist" the crafting job we have.

EDIT: Also, doesn't that mean we technically already have it in the game? IDK that's just my opinion.

I think I remember Yoshi saying Alchemist was FFXIV's version of Chemist and I'm confused why Chemist keeps being brought up as a combat job after that.

[Nemmar]

I'm gonna go here and say that completely new jobs (as in fantasy wise) are probably not in the cards. They all have been classic FF jobs or based on FF hero's.

As a fan of FFT, there are 2 classes i think would be perfect for next time around.

The Geomancer and the Chemist.

Though i personally would love a melee DPS job based on Cloud.

[Nemmar]

Maybe unpopular opinion but after a new healer I feel like SE should stop making new jobs every expansion and let the battle team focus on making the existing jobs more exciting. The more new jobs we get the harder it is for SE to balance those jobs while making them feel unique.

I don't get that.

WoW technically has 36 pretty distinct jobs. You think FF is as it's limit with 17? Looking at Shadowbringers, all jobs got cool stuff. I don't know where the idea that for there to be more good stuff we would need to sacrifice new jobs...

[Kaiserdrache]

I hope they fix first the mess of a class system thats there and give the game first a clear and complete structure on which can be build up the system.

1. Remove all Beginner Classes, up until Level 15 is everyone just classles, a Novice, then you learn your first Class and turn Level 1 again with it.
2. All Classes get now their Starting Points in Towns as part of Guilds or wandering Masters that take you in as their pupils
3. The Progress Structure gets changed from Nobody > Class > Job to Novice > Class > Advanced Class

Example of now: Nobody > Gladiator > Paladin

Examples of how I want it to be:
Novice > Paladin up till 81 > Crusader
Novice > Samurai > Shogun
Novice > Ninja > Shinobi
Novice > Redmage > Spellblade
Novice > Gunbreaker > Gunslinger
Novice > Bard > Singer
Novice > Dancer > Choreograph
Novice > Summoner > Ritualist
Novice > Blackmage > Witcher/Witch
Novice > Warrior > Berserker
Novice > Dark Knight > Templar
Novice > Monk > Champion
Novice > Dragoon > Dragooneer
Novice > Scholar > Sage
Novice > Whitemage > Cleric
Novice > Astrologist > Visionary
Novice > Machinist > Technomancer

What would I like to see new?

Novice > Rogue > Gambler, splitting the Rogue out of the Ninja, turning this into an own Job Path, ending up as a Rikku FFX-2 Style Gambler.
Novice > Greenmage > Runologist, as a way to fix this Scholar/Summoner Mess
Novice > Hunter > Beast Tamer
Novice > Bluemage > Arcanist, turning it into a real thing, not this limited crap
Novice > Druid > Alchemist, current Alchemist gets renamed to Scientist.
Novice > Occultist > Necromancer
Novice > Geomancer > Shaman
Novice > Illusionist > Dreamcatcher
Novice > Soldier > Warlord
Novice > Strider > Ranger
Novice > Timemage > Chronomancer
Novice > Guardian > Patron

Only problem is, such an overhaul would require basically all the messed up ARR content thats so designed like a switzer cheesd full of design mistake holes based on lazy bad decisions not to give added new classes the same treatment like all others, so the perfect way how it should look like can exist only in my mind, because fixing this 6 year old mess by now is impossible. The chance to do that with much lesser effort is already several years over

[Kazrah]

I think I remember Yoshi saying Alchemist was FFXIV's version of Chemist and I'm confused why Chemist keeps being brought up as a combat job after that.

It's because the players asking for it want a healer that doesn't fit that healer role stereotype of "the other spellcaster", which is a fair argument. It's also because those players are incredibly unimaginative, opting for their "security blanket" dream jobs of old over giving devs the chance to make something brand new to the series.

For the next healer, we have more options than we think. Something like Chemist could be a possibility, likely being tied more to a weapon used to deliver their potent potables that isn't just lobbing it, or we could get another caster-themed healer if devs wanted to play it on the safe side. As for healing mechanics, they could implement healing specialization systems such as delayed healing triggers (more heals like Scholar's Excogitation) or escalated healing (heals give a buff increasing healing by the caster) with secondary features such as minor healing via damage dealt (like less healing than HoTs generate) or damage deference, all just to name a few things that can be done when it comes to healing.

With another spellcaster DPS, this is also a role where there are a number of options. When Stormblood came out, Yoshi mentioned in two separate interviews about wanting to implement Oracle from FFT as a spellcaster and third job in the expansion, but they never had the time or resources for it at that point. Geomancer is another possibility, but I certainly wouldn't be looking to anything from the past for what it's all about (otherwise it'd just be Conjurer as a DPS). We could also get a job like Psychic or something that could defy the stereotypical perception of what a spellcaster is supposed to be. Another possibility could be a big reveal about how devs would have slow-built Blue Mage so it could ultimately become a standard job rather than a limited one, which could be nice and might result in slightly less dev work, but I'd not suggest holding your breath over it.

For physical ranged DPS, I think regardless of what job it is, it's going to force Bard into either being more support like Dancer or more damage like Machinist rather than trying to constantly walk that line between them in its perennial midlife crisis, and which side Bard falls determines what kind of physical ranged job we'd get. If Bard goes more support-side, then we could wind up with more of a slower heavy-hitter than Machinist. If Bard gets dragged more toward damage, then we could see something like Ranger or something with minor offensive support.

Overall, when it comes to jobs, I see two universal truths:

1) As long as the game is still running, we will always get at least one job per expansion. While it might sound unrealistic, jobs are what generate the most hype for every expansion, and it just wouldn't be a Final Fantasy game without having that broad swath of options to work with.

2) As long as players keep suggest jobs incompatible with the systems of FFXIV, there will always be Limited Jobs. Apologies to those die-hard XI fans, but they mostly have themselves to blame. Instead of whining about it, I prefer seeing them as a means of public testing for mechanics we would never otherwise get on standard jobs. All I can say to those who don't want to accept it is to push for more reasonable things that can make Limited Jobs a more enjoyable experience like giving them their own duty roulette as a means of providing more evergreen content that wouldn't waste time and resources like the Masked Carnivale does.

[Shinzo]

Singer/Performer as Healer Like in FF-X-2

[Saefinn]

There is a concept that I think would be cool, though I think unlikely as it'd be big. However, I think they should gut and redo the "class->job" system. Somebody already suggested something similar in this thread. But I'd not apply "advanced" job concepts, but "alternative" instead.

All jobs remain as they are currently. With each job you'll have core abilities, kinda like we have already. Then you have job-specific abilities. This concept is nothing new.

But each job can have an alternative that offer different job specific abilities. They retain job design & offer an alternative flavour. I can see some disadvantages, but I feel there are a few things it could address. As examples you could have:

• WHM -> Devout
• BLM -> Black Waltz
• SCH -> Sage
• AST -> Geomancer
• NIN -> Thief
• DRK -> Runefencer
• WAR -> Berserker
• SMN -> Caller
• MCH -> Turretmaster
• BRD -> Ranger

I think on the first glance, it's a way to introduce new job fantasies without designing new jobs. Because some jobs share similarities with others. I'd argue there'd become a point where this game has so many jobs they're hard to handle.

But I feel other issues could be addressed too. SMN has an identity crisis, some of us loved SMN's design in 2.0 & how it played whereas other lamented that it doesn't feel like a real SMN. What we've ended up with is two jobs squeezed into one. This would allow them to separate the two concepts.

There's those who liked the concept of rogue better than Ninja. They don't want the mudras and naruto runs. Thief I think would be a good way to keep this desire without designing a whole new job.

MCH could focus much more down its current path of shoots & big guns, whilst Turretmaster would be more of a pet focused play. And those calling for a Puppetmaster then have an FFXIV equivalent

BRD could go back to focusing on songs, whilst Ranger can drop songs in favour of using the bow more.

Then there's the arguments about simplicity versus complexity. This is something that comes up when discussing healer jobs. What if Devout had the core healing spells of a WHM, but had more variety in DPS moves?

The setback I see to such an approach would be balance, which is something they already struggled with and I think will be an increasing issue with more jobs. But I think the above could provide alternative job fantasies and offer another layer of choice without having to redesign entire new jobs (just modify existing ones). After all, some FF jobs are hybrid roles or advanced or modified versions of others.

This'd be a bit like what GW2 did. They added new versions of their existing classes to give a different feel and style of play whilst keeping core job mechanics and design. Mesmer goes from playing with illusions & deception to being a master of time & space with Chronomancer. Necromancer becomes more like a Dark Knight with Reaper. They aren't superior, just different.

[Bibitsa]

It's because the players asking for it want a healer that doesn't fit that healer role stereotype of "the other spellcaster", which is a fair argument. It's also because those players are incredibly unimaginative, opting for their "security blanket" dream jobs of old over giving devs the chance to make something brand new to the series.

It's not so much that the players are unimaginative, just that we all know that the jobs added all come in one shape or another from older FF entries. Why propose something brand new when even the developers don't ? Doesn't make any sense.

Even the gunbreaker who is the only job who never previously existed as a job was inspired by a FF character.

Also I have seen tons of requests for a necromancer lifestealing healer which would be something "brand new".

2) As long as players keep suggest jobs incompatible with the systems of FFXIV, there will always be Limited Jobs. Apologies to those die-hard XI fans, but they mostly have themselves to blame. Instead of whining about it, I prefer seeing them as a means of public testing for mechanics we would never otherwise get on standard jobs.

Alright, let's see how the summoner worked in FFXI.

You collected avatars through various quests and items all around the world. Should never have worked in a game like FFXIV right ? Would have been a perfect candidate for a limited job. Go collect avatars all around the world, pokemon style.

Except it never happened that way, they ADAPTED the summoner to FFXIV, like they did with every single other job. Some like it, some don't, and yet it's still a real job that you can play in every content.

Blue mage is overall one of the job who has had the most different versions in all FF games. Sometimes you had to eat enemies to get their powers, other times the powers were just a Limit Break, in FFTA, they used a saber and could only learn certain spells with the help of a beastmaster.

They could have made a FFXIV non-limited blue mage if they wanted to. It never had to follow the XI model since no other job ever did. The scholar of FFXI was once again completely different from the one in FFXIV so why do we have to get stuck on the FFXI version of the blue mage ?

Get the spells through the job quests and just make it work like a regular job? Make it so you have to collect certain spells and put them on your bar to be able to get into regular content, while still having some other more overpowered spells not being able to be used in that regular content ?

Some players would have probably been disappointed by whatever they could come up with, but in the end, some players have also been disappointed by the limited version.

[Saefinn]

They could have made a FFXIV non-limited blue mage if they wanted to. It never had to follow the XI model since no other job ever did. The scholar of FFXI was once again completely different from the one in FFXIV so why do we have to get stuck on the FFXI version of the blue mage ?

As a lover of both FFXI & FFXIV, I get disappointed when it comes to bringing concepts over from XI into XIV, because in many cases like: Diadem, Eureka and Blue Mage is that they've not translated these concepts well or considered how FFXIV works. Some things can't be copy pasta'd. FFXI was slow paced and very job-focused, whereas FFXIV is faster and more mechanics focused and the jobs are considerably more lightweight and toned down versus XI's. So what ends up being engaging in FFXI is not necessarily engaging in FFXIV. It's why my feedback for making Eureka fun I took concepts I enjoyed from FFXI but suggested how to work them with FFXIV, as Eureka is essentially a reference to FFXI endgame content. For a start, I think Eureka would be more fun if the adapted the leves system so parties could spawn NM's instead of using fates, because you could employ more engaging and challenging mechanics and have smaller parties with a focus, rather than a free-for-all. This would still be a good (if not better) FFXI endgame reference whilst respecting what's fun with FFXIV endgame. At least, this would be one step I feel would improve the experience. After all, FFXI parties were still limited in number and spawns only claimed to the party, like they would be if it was built on top of the leve system. The fun/engagement would be from killing these spawns who have their own boss-like mechanics, variety could be then add incentives to use other spawns and to also chain killing mobs in between and not needing to FATE train. Then leave the world boss for each Eureka zone as a FATE, so it feels like everybody in the zone chips in to take down a big bad.

Whilst I still mostly like BLU and I am not against the concept of limited jobs, but it is in dire need of content to go with it, I hope 5.1 one brings what's needed to make it work, otherwise, I think they should think about how they can make it a non-limited job. And I think if they wanted, BLU could have been made to work with FFXIV mechanics. Back when I was theory crafting before BLU was announced, I came up with some ways of doing that. There are good examples of where they have done it, I thought RDM was intelligently done, I remember reading arguments about how RDM is not suitable for FFXIV, but I think what they came up with respects the job fantasy of playing a RDM and it flows well too.

But if we're talking FFXI versions of jobs, I think PLD is a good example of how the approach and feel of FFXI's PLD translated well into FFXIV. PLD typically used a sword and shield with a few defensive mechanics, they also cast white magic to heal themselves (and others if need be) as well as cast some offensive spells like Holy. And FFXIV PLD ticks all of those boxes, they gave it a casting section of their rotation through Requiescat so you have an incentive to work melee and holy magic together. This to me was another smart way of handling it. And PLD is fun to play.