Ready for Nier Dark Apocalypse?

[Vahlnir]

Given that right now it would be impossible to practice the Ivalace raids without brining your own group of 24 people together, I'd say no.

We are not ready.

With enough people stripping ilvl to end up in crystal tower, and leaving if it ends up at world of darkness, rather then learning any sort of mechanic, I'd say no.

We are not ready.

With the word "mechanic" treated as a curse word, we are nowhere NEIR ready.

When people NEED to they will typically rise to the occasion in the name of progression. I've seen this time and time again. Weeping City's Ozma was a good example. Were there some wipes? You betcha. Are there still wipes? Also you betcha. But eventually the content does get cleared. It also happened with Orbonne and it will happen again with the new raid. It might be ugly for a time but people will manage somehow. They always do. Well, almost always.

[ICountFrom0]

When people NEED to they will typically rise to the occasion in the name of progression. I've seen this time and time again. Weeping City's Ozma was a good example. Were there some wipes? You betcha. Are there still wipes? Also you betcha. But eventually the content does get cleared. It also happened with Orbonne and it will happen again with the new raid. It might be ugly for a time but people will manage somehow. They always do. Well, almost always.

"What happened with Orbonne" You mean people taking off items to avoid ending up in it ever? People using a mod to be able to see what they are qued for, so they don't end up there ever? People leaving as soon as they arrive, so they don't have to do it, ever?

[Eli85]

When people NEED to they will typically rise to the occasion in the name of progression. I've seen this time and time again. Weeping City's Ozma was a good example. Were there some wipes? You betcha. Are there still wipes? Also you betcha. But eventually the content does get cleared. It also happened with Orbonne and it will happen again with the new raid. It might be ugly for a time but people will manage somehow. They always do. Well, almost always.

There are mountains upon mountains of analytical data that proves this demonstrably false. More often than not, when an average player is presented with an obstacle they struggle with, they either a) hope others will carry them or b) give up entirely.

Why do you think, outside of Savage and Ultimate, this game is ridiculously easy?

[Vahlnir]

"What happened with Orbonne" You mean people taking off items to avoid ending up in it ever? People using a mod to be able to see what they are qued for, so they don't end up there ever? People leaving as soon as they arrive, so they don't have to do it, ever?

I'm talking about when Orbonne was first released and the months that followed. I am NOT talking about Shadowbringers, which was when this became more of a thing.

There are mountains upon mountains of analytical data that proves this demonstrably false. More often than not, when an average player is presented with an obstacle they struggle with, they either a) hope others will carry them or b) give up entirely.

Why do you think, outside of Savage and Ultimate, this game is ridiculously easy?

Can I see your mountains upon mountains of analytical data? Because what I've seen is people clearing harder bosses in 24 man raids when they need to.

[ICountFrom0]

I'm talking about when Orbonne was first released and the months that followed. I am NOT talking about Shadowbringers, which was when this became more of a thing.

Yes, I know, your talking about the now distant past. I'm talking about now. This is NOW now. That was then.

If the average player can't even handle old content, I still feel they won't be able to handle new content.

[linay]

If the average player can't even handle old content, I still feel they won't be able to handle new content.

Every time I get Orbonne since Shadowbringers, the only times I can't complete it have been when people leave at the start and we can't fill in time for Cid. Every other times have been great, so I would say people can handle old content just fine. It's a matter of whether they want to.

Please, people, just stay for Orbonne or any other alliance raid. They're fun to do and easily doable with a full alliance.

[Vahlnir]

Yes, I know, your talking about the now distant past. I'm talking about now. This is NOW now. That was then.

If the average player can't even handle old content, I still feel they won't be able to handle new content.

The average player can handle Orbonne and the like just fine. It's just whether they want to or not. When they WANT to it's more than doable, even if there's some wipes. Either way this thread is about the new raid coming up. Let's not derail this any further.

[linay]

There are mountains upon mountains of analytical data that proves this demonstrably false. More often than not, when an average player is presented with an obstacle they struggle with, they either a) hope others will carry them or b) give up entirely.

Why do you think, outside of Savage and Ultimate, this game is ridiculously easy?

The context for what Vahlnir said is alliance raid, which is not savage or ultimate.

[Eli85]

The context for what Vahlnir said is alliance raid, which is not savage or ultimate.

You really need to re-read what I wrote.

Can I see your mountains upon mountains of analytical data? Because what I've seen is people clearing harder bosses in 24 man raids when they need to.

Google is your friend. Also, your experiences, however valid they may appear to be for you, are entirely meaningless in the larger discussion. Just because you have seen some people rise up (which, in itself is an incredibly small sample size) does not mean it's indicative of the player base as a whole. Case in point: why is every single piece of content (including 24-player raids) that is not Savage or Ultimate so ridiculously easy? Because the devs have analytics that tell them that players would rather be carried or give up than rise to the challenge. So many different developers over the years have confirmed this over and over.

[Vahlnir]

You really need to re-read what I wrote.



Google is your friend. Also, your experiences, however valid they may appear to be for you, are entirely meaningless in the larger discussion. Just because you have seen some people rise up (which, in itself is an incredibly small sample size) does not mean it's indicative of the player base as a whole. Case in point: why is every single piece of content (including 24-player raids) that is not Savage or Ultimate so ridiculously easy? Because the devs have analytics that tell them that players would rather be carried or give up than rise to the challenge. So many different developers over the years have confirmed this over and over.

That isn't a mountain of analytical data. If you really have said proof you will have no problem showing me. Otherwise you're just pulling "facts" out of thin air. I know what I see. Is that "data"? No. But I'm not claiming that it is either.