Ranged DPS role is about to be excluded from all content

[CKNovel]

If yes, but they'd struggle and need to be in the 75th to 80th percentile? - no changes needed.

If no unless they all play 100% perfectly and not even the 80th percentile gets them through a DPS check? - they need a boost.

So let's make race 4 peoples. Oh and 2 of them are paraplegic. Get rid of their wheelchair, they can get to the finish line by crawling.

Yeah no, if BLM/MNK/DRG/SAM/NIN can do the job by doing the straight minimum but ranged/rdm/smn needs to surpass themselves do reach that bare minimum, it's crap. Especially when a melee can die and still pull as much as a very good ranged.

EDIT: I remember about this E4S parse.
MCH BLM DRG MNK, the 3 lasts were crap, 20th, 13th, 13th.
The MCH was good, 62th with a rDPS around 12.6k. But the funny part is that the other's rDPS were within 300 rDPS of the MCH. MNK with 100 rDPS difference.
Only the MCH in the whole team had a ranking above 45th.

In short, it means that if this team had something else than MNK/DRG/BLM, they would have never cleared E4S.

If we follow your logic we can go wild with balance and jobs could even become a free pass to beat content, like this team where the composition was the pass.

[WalxAtNite]

So let's make race 4 peoples. Oh and 2 of them are paraplegic. Get rid of their wheelchair, they can get to the finish line by crawling.

Yeah no, if BLM/MNK/DRG/SAM/NIN can do the job by doing the straight minimum but ranged/rdm/smn needs to surpass themselves do reach that bare minimum, it's crap. Especially when a melee can die and still pull as much as a very good ranged.

75% is a good expectation for someone in Savage, right? I think so. Should someone playing 50% go in and expect to win? Savage is for above average players, right? I think 75% is fair.

I guess I'm of the mindset that I don't HAVE to be better or even as good as someone playing another job. I don't care if BLM does triple my damage.

I care that my job - the one that makes me happy when I play it - can do the content I want to do.

That is it.

And not every static out there is going to refuse to take a BRD into content because it pulls low-ish DPS... unless that BRD cannot play his/her job.

[CKNovel]

75% is a good expectation for someone in Savage, right? I think so. Should someone playing 50% go in and expect to win? Savage is for above average players, right? I think 75% is fair.

I guess I'm of the mindset that I don't HAVE to be better or even as good as someone playing another job. I don't care if BLM does triple my damage.

I care that my job - the one that makes me happy when I play it - can do the content I want to do.

That is it.

And not every static out there is going to refuse to take a BRD into content because it pulls low-ish DPS... unless that BRD cannot play his/her job.

I think you're mistaken here. The ranking is not based on the community as a whole but on the savage players.
Which means a 50th is at average in the savage context.

I invite you to read my Edit above where a BLM only was 300 rDPS lower than a 60th MCH. This BLM had Thunder dot up 50% of the time, lost Enochian multiple times, cast too much fire, avoided its own leyline, clipped a lot...

Remember that if the content is designed for the lowest DPS, then the top DPS can play like crap and clear the content with little difficulties which goes against your 75% expectation. They can play 20% and clear because they have the correct jobs.

[Akiudo]

I think you're mistaken here. The ranking is not based on the community as a whole but on the savage players.
Which means a 50th is at average in the savage context.

if you really think about it its even worse, because in the end you are comparing the guys that cleared it, imagine a first week titan group, the worst of the worst of them would run around with a bunch of grey parses even though they were still obviously above average players, else they wouldn't have cleared week 1.

also, it ignores the power of gear, which in part you will only have after you're allready done.

For bard on e3s the difference between a 50% and a 95% percentile is a whooping 1000 dps, not saying thats entirely gear, but just seeing what e3 can give you with the weapon upgrade aswell as left side upgrade for legs at the very least that alone even if it were only 500 dps is the difference between 75% and 50% percentile.

So just by missing 2 items people that have killed the fight several times have a good chance of owning you could actually play like a 75% player but still barely make blue, if that

[HyoMinPark]

75% is a good expectation for someone in Savage, right? I think so. Should someone playing 50% go in and expect to win? Savage is for above average players, right? I think 75% is fair.

I guess I'm of the mindset that I don't HAVE to be better or even as good as someone playing another job. I don't care if BLM does triple my damage.

I care that my job - the one that makes me happy when I play it - can do the content I want to do.

That is it.

And not every static out there is going to refuse to take a BRD into content because it pulls low-ish DPS... unless that BRD cannot play his/her job.

75th percentile in Savage means that the players are above average for the playerbase that does Savage content. FFLogs rankings only consider the Savage uploads uploaded to the site when determining this ranking. They aren’t considering other content, or members of the game’s community that don’t participate in Savage.

I have to disagree with the mindset of never improving one’s self. It’s fine if that’s your prerogative, but I could never settle for just being passable at something. I always strive to get better, but that’s me.

All physical ranged can clear Savage. But the role being viable doesn’t mean that the role is balanced. Viability and balance are two separate things. There is a huge issue when a top job like BLM, MNK, or DRG can die, earn an average or below average percentile, and still beat a higher percentile physical ranged by a fair amount. In one of my E3S clears, I got a 94th percentile on DNC one week. The DRG in our group died, got a 60th percentile, and still did 400 more rDPS than me. That’s a problem, in my opinion. The discrepancy between the jobs right now is far too large to be allowed.

[Rika007]

I have to echo HyoMin here. I don't mind if there is a 500r DPS difference between two jobs when both are playing perfectly. I find no difference in difficulty when I play Black Mage in Leviathan Savage then I do when I play Bard in Levi Savage (Black Mage feels nearly as mobile as Bard these days), but I can recognize I do have to at least have a better fight knowledge to make it feel so easy on Black Mage. What I do have an issue is with an I put in that same level of effort on both jobs, on Bard I drop an 85% parse, and on Black Mage, the job I'm less familiar on I drop a 40% parse, and my BLM did 1.1K rDPS more then my very well played Bard.

Now I'm someone who plays every job in the game. And although I will always gravitate towards Bard, I don't have issues with just playing something else while I'm displeases with the state of my main. But I try to put myself in the mindset of people who main a job and play it exclusively instead of my own. And simply put the disparity right now is simply far too high when you tell me that players on Dancer, Summoner, Bard, Machinist and Red Mage are having to put in a monster level of effort to just simply be slightly worse then a Black Mage or Monk who are barely able to play the class optimally and make multiple mistakes during the run. It's not fair to those players who put in all that effort to be the best at their favorite jobs and strive to be amazing and then have others blow them out of the water by just being mediocre.

[Rilifane]

75% is a good expectation for someone in Savage, right? I think so. Should someone playing 50% go in and expect to win? Savage is for above average players, right? I think 75% is fair.

I guess I'm of the mindset that I don't HAVE to be better or even as good as someone playing another job. I don't care if BLM does triple my damage.

I care that my job - the one that makes me happy when I play it - can do the content I want to do.

That is it.

And not every static out there is going to refuse to take a BRD into content because it pulls low-ish DPS... unless that BRD cannot play his/her job.

The rankings are based on only those players who are
1) actively raiding savage
2) being part of a raid that uploaded the logs of their wipes/ kills
But only a small percentage of players actively raid savage (=more than once in a blue moon) and even among them not every raid has someone uploading the logs.

Also, the percentiles don't take into consideration gear..
So a 450ish geared DRG will not be set against equally geared DRGs but rather every DRG who ever had his log uploaded for that particular content.
Which also means that even if you improve your gameplay your ranking can get worse if you can't upgrade your gear as fast as others do. On the other hand, one's logs can suddenly improve without improving gameplay at all, simply by upgrading some major parts of their gear, namely the weapon.

And I have to disagree with the notion that as long as my prefered job can clear content, it's okay.
If one class on the lower end of the rDPS ranking is present in a static, they're going to be fine. But any more than that will usually cause trouble with dps checks which implies that you CAN clear content with that class - as long as you're the only "troublemaker". Meaning you are already restricted and more likely to get excluded than a MNK/ BLM/ DRG.
If there's already one or, god forbid, even two jobs with significantly lower rDPS present in a raid, how high do you think your chances are of getting in with another job that isn't considered a hard-hitter?

Our newly formed static is currently sporting a BRD, RDM and DNC with a DRG being our only hard-hitter. We didn't have much choice during recruitment and were simply glad that we are able to run at all from now on. But it will most likely cause trouble later on. And while I know that all of us have some serious work to do regarding gameplay and are still re-learning fights in a different comp, often with new positions etc, we could easily have 3k+ rDPS more just by playing a different job but keeping the level of gameplay as it is and that's not even going full hard-hitter. We're missing out on several thousand rDPS which can make or break a dps check. And when we make it with our comp we will have to bring much better gameplay than if we'd run with only one job on the lowest end of the rDPS ranking and likely have to rely on upgrading gear while a more hard-hitting comp would forgive small mistakes and worse gear.
The average BLM is only 300 rDPS behind the best RDM on Voidwalker. Play slightly above average and you will eat every RDM ever for breakfast.

There will always be a rDPS ranking, perfect balance won't exist with this many jobs ingame.
But right now the "meta is stupid, just have fun with whatever job you want!" notion doesn't work out in reality because the difference between upper half and lower half is too signifcant to dismiss.
The lower half of DNC/ RDM/ BRD/ SMN/ MCH has to fight much harder for a spot in a static or PUG because they are, by nature, at a serious disadvantage.

[Besame]

BRD: The forsaken class...

[Katie_Kitty]

SE does not intend to have ONLY those jobs in content. I understand that.

Says who? The game should be balanced so that you can do content with any party composition equally. Devs should not be putting their fingers on the scale making it so that certain classes must be brought or so that you have to work harder and perform better to get the same performance out of certain classes simply because they aren't the chosen ones.

[JanVanding]

Says who? The game should be balanced so that you can do content with any party composition equally. Devs should not be putting their fingers on the scale making it so that certain classes must be brought or so that you have to work harder and perform better to get the same performance out of certain classes simply because they aren't the chosen ones.

^this.

All classes and compositions should be able to clear all content, yes some will be able to do it quicker/easier than others but it should all be doable.

It's why I've always hated the idea of hard one shot enrage mechanics, it's basically "Congratulations you beat the mechanics but the timer says nah"

Soft enrage is always better compared to hard enrage as it at least gives those that get close opportunity to potentially finish up instead of "LUL DENIED".