How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Samsta]

Cheese percent? rDPS is a thing now, I can't think of any way a White Mage can cheese their rDPS to be higher to reach 99th percentile.

By not healing, simple.

[AmeliaVerves]

By not healing, simple.

Believe me when I say: you still have to heal even when aiming for a 99.

idk where this weird idea comes from that in order to get a 99 you have to cuck your co-heal. No, you don't. And except for some JP padding groups most ppl don't actually do healer pad runs bc it's a pain and usually no fun. Getting a 98/99 is a reasonable goal to achieve without cutting your healing to 0.


on topic:
Imho tank dps is in a somewhat good spot compared to the melee dps, but a buff of roughly 1k for all tanks wouldn't hurt too. Whm is just kinda weirdly out of sync, but for obvious reasons I don't want it to be nerfed lol.

[SaberMaxwell]

By not healing, simple.

My WHM and SCH both consistently get 99s in most (if not every) fight this tier.

Are neither healing?

[Nedkel]

Yeah it's kind of a double whammy. The role was simplified and then they also gutted the damage? It's rough. I've always loved tanking but it's sapping the enjoyment out of the role for me.

We are a poor man version of dps right now and its not good.
We have a lot less dmg than dps and we are a lot simplier and boring to play as well.
No wonder why tanks are still in need despite 1 job more to play.

[Samsta]

Believe me when I say: you still have to heal even when aiming for a 99.

idk where this weird idea comes from that in order to get a 99 you have to cuck your co-heal. No, you don't. And except for some JP padding groups most ppl don't actually do healer pad runs bc it's a pain and usually no fun. Getting a 98/99 is a reasonable goal to achieve without cutting your healing to 0.


on topic:
Imho tank dps is in a somewhat good spot compared to the melee dps, but a buff of roughly 1k for all tanks wouldn't hurt too. Whm is just kinda weirdly out of sync, but for obvious reasons I don't want it to be nerfed lol.

You don't necessarily have to cuck your co-heal, but if you look at any 99 healer runs their healing is in single digits and the reason for that is that every dps healing is 99 and damage is reduced perfectly, while cheese might be wrong term for this they are highly optimized runs to the point that they don't represent the normal runs of even "hardcore" groups, hence they are 99% runs, by very definition they are not happening constantly like the op is pointing out, they are the best of the best optimized runs. There is no need to go to such lenghts in any content to minimize the healing the healers themselves have to do, thus they are not a good material to analyze anything other than what is theoretically possible. While it is possible for whm to surpass tanks in damage this is not happening in like 98% of clears.

[AmeliaVerves]

I think you have kind of a wrong picture on how to obtain a 99 on healer dps, it's not that sort of magical unicorn of a parse as you make it look like. Yes, it's group effort and proper mitigation is a factor, but speaking of experience, you can still get a 99 with missing mitigation and lazy dps who don't know what second wind is. rip + I'm not quite sure what you mean with single digit healing? My Sch and me still both have about 10k hps on Titan sooooo....?

There is no need to go to such lenghts in any content to minimize the healing the healers themselves have to do,

I mean... idk dude, that's the whole point of improving as a healer? Yell at your group to use their tools at hand so you can make the boss die faster? If not for highly optimized play, what should jobs be balanced for? Mediocre random button mash?
Don't get me wrong, I agree that most whms will never out-dps a tank, but that doesn't mean jobs and their capabilities should be balanced around these players, imo. And the fact that a good Whm CAN and WILL out-dps a tank is a problem that needs to be addressed by slightly buffing tank potencies.

[Samsta]

I think you have kind of a wrong picture on how to obtain a 99 on healer dps, it's not that sort of magical unicorn of a parse as you make it look like. Yes, it's group effort and proper mitigation is a factor, but speaking of experience, you can still get a 99 with missing mitigation and lazy dps who don't know what second wind is. rip + I'm not quite sure what you mean with single digit healing? My Sch and me still both have about 10k hps on Titan sooooo....?


I mean... idk dude, that's the whole point of improving as a healer? Yell at your group to use their tools at hand so you can make the boss die faster? If not for highly optimized play, what should jobs be balanced for? Mediocre random button mash?
Don't get me wrong, I agree that most whms will never out-dps a tank, but that doesn't mean jobs and their capabilities should be balanced around these players, imo. And the fact that a good Whm CAN and WILL out-dps a tank is a problem that needs to be addressed by slightly buffing tank potencies.

I meant the healing percentage with single digits. There is difference between good high level play and absolutely optimized runs, and the classes probably shouldn't be tuned for those 99% parse outliers.

[AmeliaVerves]

I meant the healing percentage with single digits. There is difference between good high level play and absolutely optimized runs, and the classes probably shouldn't be tuned for those 99% parse outliers.

Jobs should be balanced about potencies and actual damage output regardless of player skill (or rather: perfect execution while still fulfiling their given role, aka healing and tanking) and therefore it's a matter of fact that whm is either too strong or tanks are too weak IF we all agree on "tanks should do more dps than healers".



and just a little addition: your statement is wrong tho. hps parses are super weird bc of rng crit memes, padded runs, dead ppl still clearing, weaknesses and so on, but I assure you that you can still hit green and even sometimes blue healing % while going for 99% damage.

[CrimsonGunner]

im usually not like this but really enough is enough.

WTH is wrong with you all, you are bitching about tanks not doing the same dps as a dps class whose whole purpose is just that.
are you real? i mean are you real people or just trolls?complaining about why tanks dont hit as hard as a dps,is this for real?
DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ROLE IS ALL ABOUT?

i can understand complains about x job doing smaller dps then the rest of the jobs in their role.
i can understand complains about wishing the kit will have better rewards for executing combo and rotations (maybe will increase mitigation/lead to a burst phase or maybe lead to gain a barrier)
hell i can even understand complains about tanks probably do less then healers(which isn't like that at all) but that's not the case here.
but to compare the damage of tanks whose purpose is to absorb damage and take agro to the actual role that is in charge of actually dealing massive damage aka dps role, thats reaching a new low.

i read a lot of things in the forum and there were legitimate complains about dps. among the healers,it isn't how much dps they deal but the lack of varied things they do when they don't heal.
while WHM is in a good place this expansion SCH and AST aren't upset about their overall dps ,they upset that there is a serious lack of actions to do during healing downtime,either is applying varied buffs or debuffs and in worse case give healers more then just 1 damage skill but they never complained about why their dps isn't the same as an actual dps class.

you know who need to complain about low numbers in damage compare to dps jobs,THE CLASS WHOSE ROLE IS BEING DAMAGE DEALER IN THE FIRST PLACE WHICH THEY DO.
its their solid point and main contribution to a party. have you seen the talks about it, giving certain dps disparities between the jobs in the role and entire classes get excluded and banned because of it and why BECAUSE ITS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THEIR JOB AND WITHOUT THAT THEY CANT CONTRIBUTE IN PARTIES ,its sad but it exists.

and then you come crying and saying that tanks are a poor version of dps or they must have the same as dps role then let me tell you something that might wake you up YOU ARE NOT DPS, YOU ARE A TANK.
tanks are protectors,they guard the party from mobs,they take the full hits from the mobs and sole purpose is to make sure the mobs won't chase us fragile classes.

and last point why this is such a bad comparison and request, if you basically give a tank the same dps as those that actually specialize in damage,what is the point in having a dps job if tank can do the same amount+mitigating damage.
if such a thing was real and if SE didn't enforce the party composition(there is content that literally doesn't require specific party composition), you can basically remove all dps jobs,cause switching to a tank will be the same as being dps with the benefit of mitigation skills.the only thing that will give reason to dps classes to exist would be SE enforcement of party composition and that's it.

[CrimsonGunner]

lets just get it over with.
create a thread that asks SE to create an all round job that can be tank with the same dps as the other dps jobs with a healer kit and be done with this.