SE better do something or the game will drop dead

[darkstarpoet1]

i just have a question. i see one group telling someone to wait until something is put in to judge it and then say what they think, but when they do that the same group says well you should have said something sooner. which way do you want? do you want someone to bring up concerns before or after? you can't have it where they say nothing at all. they have to express concerns at one point or another. which time do you want it?

[Douten]

i just have a question. i see one group telling someone to wait until something is put in to judge it and then say what they think, but when they do that the same group says well you should have said something sooner. which way do you want? do you want someone to bring up concerns before or after? you can't have it where they say nothing at all. they have to express concerns at one point or another. which time do you want it?

I think it is best when concerns are brought up when reforms are needed. As in we need a tangible thing to try first so we know what is works and doesn't, we can not go on theorizing all day.

Here's the example of XIV. New release > major fail > Dev listens to complaint for reform --Time to input your opinion-- > release new patched up content > test drive.. rinse and repeat.

I'm not saying do not voice your opinion at all in any section of this, but for it to be effective do it in a phase before the reform plan is executed. Right now for the job system we can only wait and see. If it is really that bad then the time will come again for the opinion to be heard and for it to be effective.

[djjdiss]

Here's the example of XIV. New release > major fail > Dev listens to complaint for reform --Time to input your opinion-- > release new patched up content > test drive.. rinse and repeat.

That isn't going to work with the current roadmap timeframe. It may have been feasible when plans for 2.0 weren't set in motion yet, but as more content, especially content of this level, is getting put into the game, things become more hectic as the team can't take the time to just "sit down" and play footsie while they talk to the community and go back to the drawing board to whip up changes.

Without a test server I just don't see them being able to stay on schedule for the 2.0 release AND perform the inevitable MAJOR bugs they're going to encounter from not having a test server to use...

Really sucks.

[djjdiss]

i just have a question. i see one group telling someone to wait until something is put in to judge it and then say what they think, but when they do that the same group says well you should have said something sooner. which way do you want? do you want someone to bring up concerns before or after? you can't have it where they say nothing at all. they have to express concerns at one point or another. which time do you want it?

[SIZE="6"]THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU[/SIZE]

I was beginning to think I was surround by mindless robots that do exactly what yoshi tells them.

Since we don't get a test server, the only time I see appropriate to give feedback is when these crap notes get released as they're all we get to go off of before things get implemented.

If we don't voice our distaste before things get put in, it's going to be a long time before the team has a chance to go back and fix the errors or make important changes.

[Jennestia]

i just have a question. i see one group telling someone to wait until something is put in to judge it and then say what they think, but when they do that the same group says well you should have said something sooner.

I've never seen this -- Logic and common sense dictates you can't judge a book by it's cover, this is how things are more likely to end up a way you don't want if you preemptively complain about something because they could end up fixing what isn't broken but that wouldn't be known because a group of people complained just from the concept and not implementation.

It reminds me of when burger places started to introduce "weird" burger ideas and how people complained a hamburger shouldn't have x,y,z on it, yet it ended up becoming staples in most burger places because when they finally experienced it, it wasn't this sin against humanity they made it out to be just from hearing about it.

they have to express concerns at one point or another.

You express concerns after you have it in your hands, you can't say "this doesn't work" because of what you assume on how it works or will work or will affect things. It's fine to speak up about problems, but how can you consider something a problem when you can't even experience it? Don't people refer to that as complaining for the sake of it? Going back to the burger example, it's like complaining your burger was undercooked before you even see the damn thing let alone taste it lol.

[djjdiss]

@Jennestia

That sounds all fine a dandy if we were talking about something as complex as a new class, but these are cut and dry skills here with VERY basic functionality.

IDK, I think i'm starting to see that the average person here still paying to play doesn't give a shit what they get as long as they get something to play with...

So sad when such a first class game series only has a tiny group of informal devs with a limited amount of money and tools to rely on to prevent total destruction.

dysfunctionally functional somehow I guess.

[Renshi]

@Jennestia

That sounds all fine a dandy if we were talking about something as complex as a new class, but these are cut and dry skills here with VERY basic functionality.

IDK, I think i'm starting to see that the average person here still paying to play doesn't give a shit what they get as long as they get something to play with...

So sad when such a first class game series only has a tiny group of informal devs with a limited amount of money and tools to rely on to prevent total destruction.

dysfunctionally functional somehow I guess.

Even the most basic skill can be a great unbalance of the classes in the game =)

[darkstarpoet1]

I've never seen this -- Logic and common sense dictates you can't judge a book by it's cover, this is how things are more likely to end up a way you don't want if you preemptively complain about something because they could end up fixing what isn't broken but that wouldn't be known because a group of people complained just from the concept and not implementation.

It reminds me of when burger places started to introduce "weird" burger ideas and how people complained a hamburger shouldn't have x,y,z on it, yet it ended up becoming staples in most burger places because when they finally experienced it, it wasn't this sin against humanity they made it out to be just from hearing about it.



You express concerns after you have it in your hands, you can't say "this doesn't work" because of what you assume on how it works or will work or will affect things. It's fine to speak up about problems, but how can you consider something a problem when you can't even experience it? Don't people refer to that as complaining for the sake of it? Going back to the burger example, it's like complaining your burger was undercooked before you even see the damn thing let alone taste it lol.

thats what thread upon thread here demanded. There was tons of threads complaining about having too many spells. Threads of people complaining they didn't use 1/2 the spells. Thread upon thread of posters/players complaining that alot of spells didn't feel to them, to fit the class. All they did, was what they thought the people wanted.

This is why they changed stats, as well as how many we can control.

You mention that you do not like the idea of streamlining, well you should have posted during the hundereds of threads that debated this and the devs read. Now its a little late to look back and post complaints.

No offence, but when you wait till after the fact of the change, after not participating the the multitude of debates as they occured. It just comes off as alot of Johnny come lately whinning.

Storm's Path Replacement? We already have Storm's Path, and its effect is given to Whirlwind skill. The Warrior one has to be something different though.

I'm with Coglin about judging content before trying it. We can suggest anything we want, but at the end these suggestions go to Yoshida, and I don't believe that he vomits actions without thinking. Actions placed badly can be no good for a game, so you can bet he and his Battle Team are judging very firmly on the future actions. All we have to do is to try, and if we don't like something we just suggest on how to make that something even better.

these 2 posts above is why i asked my question. one group arguing with him are doing so because he is talking about stuff that has already been changed so they say shut up because it's already been done so he should have spoken up sooner. the other post is telling him to shut up and wait until the new things are put into place and tries them out before stating them. if he listens to the correct method and tests it out then it comes to the problem with the first group telling him he should have stated concerns sooner. it's a no win situation if a concern is brought up no matter the timing.

if there was a test server the second group would be completely correct. something could be added there and people give feedback before it went into the game. some of it may be alot better than we had before just like some of the changes we have gotten so far has been. some of it may be alot worse just like some of the changes we have gotten so far. at least with a test server people would have a time frame to try something and decide whether it is good or bad. it would be a grace period where it was tested and not fully implemented.

right now you have 3 steps to bring up any concern

1. see patch notes
2. bring up concerns
3. be told to wait and try something

or

1. wait until you test something
2. state your concern
3. be told you should have said something sooner


at least with a test server you would actually give people a time frame to bring up concerns

1. see notes
2. test on test server
3. give concerns
4. concerns are taken care of
5. item put in game

my thing is neither method used with the way it is now will work because no matter if you bring up concerns before or after will the concerns be addressed because they get attacked for stating a concern. a test server would go quite a long way towards getting more bugs and issues handled before they went into the game.