Tactful ways to inform people that they're playing badly?

[Dreakon13]

The game itself does a poor job in teaching new players how things regarding classes/jobs work. That's why there a lot of information out there and sometimes it takes a bit to sift through.

I was actually impressed by the little training exercises that revolve around your class/role, it helped me a lot. But there's a big gap between those absolute basics, and expectations in real situations with real players. And that gap gets even bigger in later game content, I imagine.

[Vahlnir]

I was actually impressed by the little training exercises that revolve around your class/role, it helped me a lot. But there's a big gap between those absolute basics, and expectations in real situations with real players. And that gap gets even bigger in later game content, I imagine.

Yep, exactly. They only tell you things like "hit, tank or heal till you win" with a side of "dodge this" then send people on their merry way. The game needs a proper tutorial for each class/job, in my opinion. The main thing Halls of the Novice is good for is teaching people some basic party mechanics. Perhaps such tutorials could be added to that.

[CherryJubilee]

The real problem is people just don't talk in DF. They're too busy hurrying through the content which only leads to ruffled feathers when someone does say something because now the "bad" player has been singled out. So if you really want to offer advice, you need to talk from the start so when you make the suggestion/give advice it doesn't make the other person feel like you've stopped everything just to shame and humiliate them. If you try to set the mood of the run as fun and friendly from the very beginning, people will be a lot more receptive to any constructive criticism you have to give.

I know I'm not good at this game. I'm a lousy healer, I have terrible reaction times, and I don't understand the rotation I've seen because I can't ever make it work in an actual dungeon (tanks with no defensives on big pulls and my gear is at level so "eeek"). I'm still learning and I'm doing the best I can with what I've got to work with. I wouldn't mind a player giving me pointers or stopping to discuss what the problem is. As long as they're doing it in a friendly way. It's easier to take criticism from someone who seems like they're just trying to help than some anti-social mute who suddenly stops everything just to complain at me about my performance.

That's just my 2 cents on this.

[Dreakon13]

The real problem is people just don't talk in DF. They're too busy hurrying through the content which only leads to ruffled feathers when someone does say something because now the "bad" player has been singled out. So if you really want to offer advice, you need to talk from the start so when you make the suggestion/give advice it doesn't make the other person feel like you've stopped everything just to shame and humiliate them. If you try to set the mood of the run as fun and friendly from the very beginning, people will be a lot more receptive to any constructive criticism you have to give.

I know I'm not good at this game. I'm a lousy healer, I have terrible reaction times, and I don't understand the rotation I've seen because I can't ever make it work in an actual dungeon (tanks with no defensives on big pulls and my gear is at level so "eeek"). I'm still learning and I'm doing the best I can with what I've got to work with. I wouldn't mind a player giving me pointers or stopping to discuss what the problem is. As long as they're doing it in a friendly way. It's easier to take criticism from someone who seems like they're just trying to help than some anti-social mute who suddenly stops everything just to complain at me about my performance.

That's just my 2 cents on this.

Great point. I definitely agree with this. Had a random group maybe a week ago where they were stopping and chatting after every major pull, and as a newer tank it was a little confusing because I wasn't sure if I should keep going or let them finish.

But it was also really refreshing to see... it made an ordinary DF run kinda fun... and any commentary on how I was doing, or how the healer was doing (since we were obviously the "new players" of the group), was welcomed. Not that I was doing anything wrong for the record... just pointers here and there, commenting on my gear, etc. It helped they were also super friendly the whole way through. Even felt comfortable enough to ask if there were any mechanics/tricks to the boss before we did it since it was my first time doing that dungeon. Everything went real smooth.

I love the idea of people being a bit more sociable in the duty finder.

[Annabellechu]

I love how people just assume, I'm a sprout and I'd still rather have constructive advices said nicely than being kicked for being new (yes I read the other comments). I almost got kicked out of one of ARR story quest for running away from a boss (I'm a healer). Someone told me to stop running and stand still and I did. Then proceeded to start a kick vote for harassement because I said: "Sorry I'm new, I see a big monster running after me I run lol". If thos is how people react this community suck and I'll stick to private party. It was just a story quest for me and I didn't know better, I've been playing for 2 weeks.

A simple "stop running" would've been enough. Stop assuming we're going to react badly, you get a bad experience, I get a bad experience everyone gets a bad experience because you didn't even try.

[WitchDrAsh]

I think it depends, especially in duty finder.

As someone who's learning to tank, with Gunbreaker (so maybe a mistake picking up a tanking job that starts at 60) and 3 levels in has had someone just go after the final boss "Your positioning is bad, leaves dungeon" it's incredibly annoying.

If you can offer advice I personally appreciate hints and tips, had some great people in Duty Finder when I was leveling my WHM explaining things, other people probably wont.

Honestly I just move on in dungeons, they're what, 20 minutes? Not worth it. If you're going for bigger stuff, maybe point it out, and say why it's not a great way to play.

[TheForce]

I think/hope you all know how to speak politely in general. Beyond that just try to offer specific advice on how they can improve. "You're not playing well; try to fix that" will always come off as insulting; while specific advice regarding gear or rotation will come off as you trying to be helpful.

Still, where you "polite" critics tend to fall apart is if someone isn't receptive of you. If someone doesn't want your advice that's not the green light to get aggressive and try to force it on them. Either let it go or, if the run is becoming untenable because of the player who can't/won't adjust, initiate a vote kick and see how the rest of the group feels.

(Slight rant incoming, hahaha)
Yes yes yes yes! Perfectly put!
I was waiting to see a reply like this. I also want to expand specifically upon what you said about becoming rude after someone rejects your advice: this is very important to realize. If you claim that you're "kind", or "polite", or anything along those lines, then you need to stick to that, even if you see someone doing something you don't like. The moment you become hostile towards someone because they respectfully reject your advice, you are a FRAUD, a fake, and the opposite of what you pretended to be. I've seen this happen many times, and sometimes I even need to step in to shut down the harrassment. After playing for many years you notice a LOT of things, and one of the main things I've noticed is how these frauds claim to be so kind, so nice, so understanding, and how they're a part of the "fantastic" community of FFXIV, but in actuality, they're some of the nastiest individuals you'll ever meet. This game's community is NOT good! At first glance ot appears to be that way, but really spend some time here and just watch how people interact and you'll learn the truth quickly. It's sad because I don't remember it being like this during beta.

[Jybril]

i just had a healer who was doing nothing but healing on a 76 lvl dungeon,an astro player and guess what.. he was not even using a single divination,i was very very frustrated

i needed to go let go my frustration so i told him what i think about his "gameplay" right after the last boss death(without any bad words) and i left instantly,if i was with friends he would be instant kicked after the 1st pulls/boss ,i absolutely HATE players like that

edit : dont waste your time to argue with my post

I would have reported you.
People come here to play the dang game, not stress out
because they aren't up to your standards. It doesn't matter if you said
bad words or not, you still could have been really rude otherwise.
And then you left so you didn't have to hear what he had to say...
You'd basically be kicking the healer...just
because he was healing. Wow.

Edit: And I just want to say, these newer dungeons are hard hitting at times
and until you get into the groove and stuff you have to heal a bit more than
normal...so I dunno why you felt so mad because he didn't use 1 skill...

[Hash_Browns]

I would have reported you.
People come here to play the dang game, not stress out
because they aren't up to your standards. It doesn't matter if you said
bad words or not, you still could have been really rude otherwise.
And then you left so you didn't have to hear what he had to say...
You'd basically be kicking the healer...just
because he was healing. Wow.

Edit: And I just want to say, these newer dungeons are hard hitting at times
and until you get into the groove and stuff you have to heal a bit more than
normal...so I dunno why you felt so mad because he didn't use 1 skill...

This right here is the reason I don't talk during dungeons/raids/trials, and just attempt to remove people who are comic levels of bad.

[Awha]

Sadly no one size fits all approach to your question, it all depends on the person and only thing you can do is either do your best to not let their style of play bother you, or say something and risk the outcome positive or negative. For me personally tone does not matter, if someone offers me advice I will look into it ask around and it turns out to be valid I will adopt it. I will do this if someone was detailed or simply told me to kill myself, it boils down to self reflection in my opinion. People get caught up with how the information is given instead of looking at as to why the info was said in the first place.

Just my 2 cents.