Tales from the Shadows

[RyuDragnier]

Personally, I'm most happy to have the final piece to complete my headcanon for how my character came to summon demi-Phoenix.

(It continues to disappoint me that the "official" WoL has an apparent aversion to taking on spellcasting jobs. The summoner remains, in my mind, one of the strongest contenders for the WoL's actual canonical discipline, given its many links to the MSQ and game lore.)

Other than that, it was a huge bonus to learn more about Amaurot, and the society of the Ancients. I would easily rank this the best of the four Tales from the Shadows.

It definitely feels like SMN should be the canon DPS job for the WoL due to its link to MSQ, just like how DRK is pretty much the WoL's canon tank job.

[swiss_Momo]

I'm curious about why they don't do that. I understand why they don't want to characterize the Warrior of Light, namely they don't want to step on players' toes and want us all to be able to apply the story to our WoL. But they seem to be using that same logic about the Amaurotine precursor, right down to the gender of them somehow changing depending on our present WoL, and that just doesn't make sense to me. Are our current character choices going to impact that precursor somehow? Is time a circle or something? Seriously, what is with making the precursor's details dependent on a fragment of their future self instead of being their own established character? Don't get me wrong; I absolutely loved that we got a mention at all and got to see Hades' reaction to it. I'm just confused, cus the writing this expac is so good and yet this nonsensical story choice is happening.

I assume they are keeping the identity of our ancient WoLself under wraps in this tale simply because it hasn't been reviled ingame yet. Also they can't keep it a blank slate if we were the 14th conviction member, since that means we not only had our own title, red mask and glyph, but must've also been outstandingly skilled in a specific field of science or creation magic (if they try to pull a science of nodding joke, I am going to riot. Swea' on me mum Hydaelin).

[YianKutku]

Yes... I am very happy that my WoL now has a place other then Coils to have gotten Phoenix from... Thumbing through the back-catalog of concepts in Aldyner and finding one that looks very familiar and figuring out how to make use of it by the last Hades fight feels a lot more in line with what the WoL would do rather then make use of a Primal the Scions didn't want anyone to know about...

Commentary on Tumblr notes that this does mean one of Hades's most prominent memories was his first task as Emet-Selch being to remove an immortal firebird, and then twelve thousand years later he faces off against the Warriors of Light and the SMN pops out Demi-Phoenix and Hades just goes "oh FFS not again".

[Alleo]

I'm curious about why they don't do that. I understand why they don't want to characterize the Warrior of Light, namely they don't want to step on players' toes and want us all to be able to apply the story to our WoL. But they seem to be using that same logic about the Amaurotine precursor, right down to the gender of them somehow changing depending on our present WoL, and that just doesn't make sense to me. Are our current character choices going to impact that precursor somehow? Is time a circle or something? Seriously, what is with making the precursor's details dependent on a fragment of their future self instead of being their own established character? Don't get me wrong; I absolutely loved that we got a mention at all and got to see Hades' reaction to it. I'm just confused, cus the writing this expac is so good and yet this nonsensical story choice is happening.

Especially since the WoL is already not 100% our own. This is a linear story so SE already takes the decisions for us. We may sometimes be able to choose between two to three sentences but I also often find myself not happy with those either. So they are already giving us their character which we can use to fill in the blanks they have left. But with the Amaurot!WoL they are not us. We just share part of their souls but seemingly nothing more.

The part with the gender is also a bit confusing for me too. Maybe they just wanted to use that to show us that we once were that person which makes it more clear if it changes gender depending on which one we have. But at the same time Ardbert, a soul shard of us, is male no matter the character (which makes the talking through us scene a bit funny as a female)...at the same time if Derplander is the canon look of the WoL then they too look nearly identical..just like the soul shards of other people we know do..

About souls and the underworld: If those souls can be seen even after death does that mean that either the underworld in the past did not change the soul or does it even imply that the Scions idea behind the lifestream is wrong and its not just only some souls that continues to exist and be reborn but that everyone does? Or is this just their final moments before they became part of the underworld and disappeared until they are formed into a new soul? I like the idea more that souls will exist no matter what and that maybe the difference to the old time is only in us not keeping our memories..maybe that is why Sadus tribe can see who that soul belonged too..because they still have some of that power left to see the colors of the souls..and it would only make sense to have such souls if they dont disappear and rebuilt right?

[Daralii]

Especially since the WoL is already not 100% our own. This is a linear story so SE already takes the decisions for us. We may sometimes be able to choose between two to three sentences but I also often find myself not happy with those either. So they are already giving us their character which we can use to fill in the blanks they have left. But with the Amaurot!WoL they are not us. We just share part of their souls but seemingly nothing more.

The part with the gender is also a bit confusing for me too. Maybe they just wanted to use that to show us that we once were that person which makes it more clear if it changes gender depending on which one we have. But at the same time Ardbert, a soul shard of us, is male no matter the character (which makes the talking through us scene a bit funny as a female)...at the same time if Derplander is the canon look of the WoL then they too look nearly identical..just like the soul shards of other people we know do..

About souls and the underworld: If those souls can be seen even after death does that mean that either the underworld in the past did not change the soul or does it even imply that the Scions idea behind the lifestream is wrong and its not just only some souls that continues to exist and be reborn but that everyone does? Or is this just their final moments before they became part of the underworld and disappeared until they are formed into a new soul? I like the idea more that souls will exist no matter what and that maybe the difference to the old time is only in us not keeping our memories..maybe that is why Sadus tribe can see who that soul belonged too..because they still have some of that power left to see the colors of the souls..and it would only make sense to have such souls if they dont disappear and rebuilt right?

If the individuals were so much more powerful then, it's possible that their souls were more resilient and less likely to degrade in the Lifestream. Since each soul has a color, it'd explain why Hades saw an aurora of them in Amaurot and something sickly and putrid after the Sundering- the "colors" were running together instead of staying distinct.

[Iscah]

Very interesting story, and will be good to have it in mind for replaying Shadowbringers.

It sheds more light on Hades' attitude toward Varis in his introduction, which was a big sticking point for me seeing him as a sympathetic character during the game.

Could the "shift in the laws of the star" have caused things to develop souls more easily?

The "Words of Lahabrea" seems an odd phrase. Is it an organisation? Is it the full form of Lahabrea's title?


On a side note, I think they've messed up with that "city landscape" screenshot and showed the buildings from an angle we're not supposed to see - look at that floating one! In-game you can't see the bottom edge of it. Looks like they might have one double-ended skyscraper model that they use in different configurations to create different parts of the city buildings.

We can perhaps learn a fair amount from this story. Let's weave it all together. In the time of Amaurot, there was indeed one race, one people.

I don't think we can 100% confirm the "one race, one people" thing yet though - they're just described as "men" and race isn't talked about. In modern Eorzea all the races can equally be referred to as men (and women) regardless of race, so it's not impossible that the races exist at that point and simply aren't being talked about.

And it still requires the question of how the races came into existence if the Sundering simply split the world into multiple copies.

Only Deus ex Phoenix I want to see is Alphinaud finally popping out a Phoenix-Egi.

I'm still headcanoning that's what his Ruby Carbuncle actually is, seeing as he wouldn't be able to summon Ifrit (to our knowledge) but he does have the 'aether blueprint' for a fire-aspected egi that has to be kept secret...

Crazy theory time, i wonder if the soul of that Phoenix was the start of the cry/voice that started making everything go foobar, fear of death is a very powerful fear and for near immortal beings with creation magics could be spread fast from a singular point creating untold destruction. It would be also add another layer of sadness to Hades's tale if he inadvertently caused the original calamity by forcing this soul back into the underworld.

Definitely an interesting possibility!

It did bring up a few very puzzling things, though! The Underworld, for instance... Is this supposed to be the Lifestream? If so, is it the SAME Lifestream we know? It appears that there's a cycle of life and death involving the Underworld... are the Ancients themselves, being immortal beings, not a part of it? Or are they still subject to it on the rare occasions when they do die, or are born?

It sounds like the Underworld is the place where the [Lifestream-or-equivalent] runs - but then the general idea of aether visibly swirling around and flowing through the world is perhaps an extension of the same process. Perhaps the deep aetherial realm is the only place where the flow of aether is still strong enough to be perceived as a 'stream'. Or perhaps Zodiark altered how the flow behaves.


I don't think the Ancients are immortal though - just very long-lived compared to humans. Emet talks about them "living for an age" (ie. era) at one point.

It seems [Emet] was pretty reclusive back then, an interesting change from the man we came to know, but at the same time mayhap it was this special sensory with every kind of life and soul that made him, in a sense, the most sociable of the Ascians.

Apparently Hythlodaeus was the original smug, cheeky character, more similar to Emet in the present.

I disagree about the personalities being different - present-Emet might be "smug" but in a different way, and he's certainly not "cheeky". I think the withdrawn, somewhat irritated personality he has here seems consistent with how he is in-game - he still seems like the sort of character who would have a snarky sense of humour in a different situation, and act like he's less impressed with things than he actually is.

Hythlodaeus seems to be a more good-natured, openly friendly person who might tease his friends but only because he knows they'll be okay with it.

Let me ask then, from where did you think that Architect is a role, capital A? If we do in fact take it from a seated title (Words of Lahabrea) then isn't the case that Hythlodaeus is not it as Hythlodaeus refuses to take the seat/role?

In the city we have three visible buildings that are labeled as Bureaus: the Architect, Administrator and Secretariat, which does suggest that the Architect is a position of power in the city - whether it is part of the Convocation or something separate.

Why are there only four? T_T

Given the pattern so far, we should be getting another four stories at some later point, though I'm not sure when.

I feel like we're going to need more than eight total though.

(It continues to disappoint me that the "official" WoL has an apparent aversion to taking on spellcasting jobs. The summoner remains, in my mind, one of the strongest contenders for the WoL's actual canonical discipline, given its many links to the MSQ and game lore.)

Same - it just makes a lot of sense, and ties in with all sorts of core story elements like the Ascians, summoning and Allagan technology.

If the individuals were so much more powerful then, it's possible that their souls were more resilient and less likely to degrade in the Lifestream. Since each soul has a color, it'd explain why Hades saw an aurora of them in Amaurot and something sickly and putrid after the Sundering- the "colors" were running together instead of staying distinct.

Could be, although that line is more about the intensity of the light than the colour. Instead of the radiant light of aether that he could once see, there's just a weak glow left.

[MrThinker]

The "Words of Lahabrea" seems an odd phrase. Is it an organisation? Is it the full form of Lahabrea's title?

The "Words of Lahabrea" appear as the name of a section of Akademia Anyder, specifically, the last section leading up to Quetzacotl. Considering what the Akademia is (a research institute), it is likely that the "Words of Lahabrea" was simply one of the departments of research there, headed by the current Lahabrea, which means it specialised in phantomology, which this story in turn suggests would be the study of arcane entities.

[Iscah]

The "Words of Lahabrea" appear as the name of a section of Akademia Anyder, specifically, the last section leading up to Quetzacotl. Considering what the Akademia is, it is likely that the "Words of Lahabrea" was simply one of the departments of research, the one headed by the current Lahabrea, which means it specialised in phantomology, which this story suggests would be the study of arcane entities.

Ah, that makes sense. I did think I'll need to double-check the Akademia for references next time I get it in the roulette. It's my least-favourite of the dungeons so I won't be running it deliberately.

[Daralii]

Ah, that makes sense. I did think I'll need to double-check the Akademia for references next time I get it in the roulette. It's my least-favourite of the dungeons so I won't be running it deliberately.

From what I remember, the Anyder is divided into departments named after seats on the Convocation. The ones we visit are the Words of Mitron(ichthyology), Halmarult(phytobiology), and Lahabrea(phantomology). The notes in the Words of Lahabrea are the only ones that relate to the Convocation as it was at the time of the Terminus, with the other two talking about the originals and their fields of study.

[Alleluia]

Given the pattern so far, we should be getting another four stories at some later point, though I'm not sure when.

I feel like we're going to need more than eight total though.

Yeah, but weren't the slots for them always there on the site for the previous sets? I remember Stormblood's slots all being there from teh start, at least. I want to say Dragonsong War had all 8 there too. Tales from teh Calamity didn't, but then its whole ui is a different format anyway.