Tales from the Shadows

[MrThinker]

This short story was all I could've asked for. I love it.

However, it makes me question whether Emet-Selch truly holds the title 'the Architect'. I never found a source for that to begin with...

I believe it was simply a misnomer on our behalf due to reasons, but yes, it is never stated that he was Architect in the game, and it appears that instead it was Hythlodaeus. Also they really teasing our original self being close friends with Hades.

[RicaRuin]

Good. It really bugged me that everyone referred to Hades as 'the Architect' without citing a source. Hope those Wiki pages will be corrected as well.

[Nalien]

I wonder if there is any relevance to Phoenix essentially showing up in that story? A little bonus explanation as to how Louisoix ended up merging with it, perhaps? Hope it's not foreshadowing anything... Only Deus ex Phoenix I want to see is Alphinaud finally popping out a Phoenix-Egi.

Nice to see that Hades is the OG Primal Slayer, too.

[YianKutku]

I wonder if there is any relevance to Phoenix essentially showing up in that story? A little bonus explanation as to how Louisoix ended up merging with it, perhaps? Hope it's not foreshadowing anything... Only Deus ex Phoenix I want to see is Alphinaud finally popping out a Phoenix-Egi.

Nice to see that Hades is the OG Primal Slayer, too.

Is this Phoenix an actual Primal as we understand it, though? It mostly seems unusual in the context of the story because it is an arcane construct with a soul, unlike everything else the Amaurotines (and possibly other Ancients) created. As far as I can tell, the presence (or absence) of a soul is not really relevant to Primal-dom, except possibly in the sense of "to be sapient, you need a soul".

As far as I can tell, Hades's responsibility here is to use his special connection to the Lifestream/Underworld to send this aether back forcibly. That, or maybe it's his power as a "sorcerer of eld", ie being a better mage than everyone else.

Also prior to this I assumed that Louisiox becoming the Phoenix Primal was because he heard the legends about Suzaku via some Sharlayan academic route, and used that as inspiration for a life-giving being, but with this story I'm beginning to wonder if there's a much earlier common mythical source for both Suzaku and Louisoix's Phoenix. Especially since there's the tantalizing hypothesis that the architecture and design of Akademia Anyder seems to be surprisingly close to what we know of Sharlayan architecture.

(Then again, it could just be a commonality in out-of-universe inspirations, ie pop culture Ancient Greece.)

[Nalien]

Is this Phoenix an actual Primal as we understand it, though? It mostly seems unusual in the context of the story because it is an arcane construct with a soul, unlike everything else the Amaurotines (and possibly other Ancients) created. As far as I can tell, the presence (or absence) of a soul is not really relevant to Primal-dom, except possibly in the sense of "to be sapient, you need a soul".

As far as I can tell, Hades's responsibility here is to use his special connection to the Lifestream/Underworld to send this aether back forcibly. That, or maybe it's his power as a "sorcerer of eld", ie being a better mage than everyone else.

I was under the impression that Primals do have souls at this point. Ifrit is very clearly Ifrit, Ramuh very clearly has sentience and a fairly long memory. If they were just new constructs as a result of Creation Magic (albeit a significantly nerfed version, due to the Sundering) they wouldn't retain memories, surely? They'd be far more limited by the imagination of their summoners, it makes more sense to me that "Ramuh" is pulled out of the Lifestream whenever he is summoned. As such, I imagine the Amaurot Phoenix to be something like a Proto-Primal, wouldn't be surprised if this case was reviewed and the concept refined to eventually summon Zodiark, at least.

Either way, I meant it more as a joke than anything too serious; Hades gets called in to use his gift to undo an undying creation, much the same way we constantly get called in to use our gift (the Echo) to undo undying Primals.

Also prior to this I assumed that Louisiox becoming the Phoenix Primal was because he heard the legends about Suzaku via some Sharlayan academic route, and used that as inspiration for a life-giving being, but with this story I'm beginning to wonder if there's a much earlier common mythical source for both Suzaku and Louisoix's Phoenix. Especially since there's the tantalizing hypothesis that the architecture and design of Akademia Anyder seems to be surprisingly close to what we know of Sharlayan architecture.

As I recall, Suzaku also heard legends of an immortal fire-bird, prior to essentially becoming that herself as well, with people mistaking her for the legendary bird back then. Perhaps legends of Suzaku are where Louisiox got the idea from, but with this tale the inception for "Phoenix" is clearly in Amaurot.

Louisiox also never intended to become Phoenix, or even to summon it in the first place. He did so accidentally, and it did always strike me as a bit odd that he also accidentally did so with an entirely new form of summoning as well, given it wasn't until Ysayle that "becoming" a Primal was really a thing, and Ascian dialog back then made it fairly clear that that was a new concept. Here though, we have a story of Phoenix's inception, and it just happening to merge with a drifting soul? So... I guess that's just something Phoenix does in this universe? Gets popped into existence, then merges with the most available soul; In the case of the Calamity, that was Louisiox.

Also, I didn't pick this up on my first read, but;

"Consumed by the fear of death, it thrashes blindly about. It will know only pain and suffering and inflict the same upon others. A pitiful existence."

Oh the irony...

[swiss_Momo]

fun fact: the French and German version of the new story come with a male or female WoL toggle, which will change the gender of the unnamed friend Hythlodeus mentions. And speaking of our old new friend, the detail about him having even better "lifestream & soul vission" than Hades probably explains why he was the only one to ever notice Ardberd's ghost.

[Rannie]

So everytime he spoke I heard Emet's voice.... I really liked the story though I wish I knew why he didn't want to get in touch with that "certain someone" but *shrugs* I do hope that wasnt the last last one and more will come out.

[Crushnight]

Poor Varis, to be told i hate your body by your grandfather is just crushing to hear and very much explains why he hates Solus as much as he did from spitting at his coffin to just shooting him (a fair bit of venting might even be why he choose to clone Solus specifically either revenge or wanting acceptance). Now obviously does not excuse what Varis does but it does start to show why Varis was so gunho about being the perfect race, he just wanted to be accepted by his grandfather but this need grew distorted over time to malicious uncaring thought for anything even his own son, this singular desire could be the reason Varis had Zenos be experimented on in the 1st place to try and make that perfect body for his grandsire.

It is interesting to know Hades was the last to be apart of the convocation of the fourteen, meaning our original self already held a prominent position within Amaurotian society before Emet-Selch seat was filled, wonder what we were in charge of and what our seat name was too.

Crazy theory time, i wonder if the soul of that Phoenix was the start of the cry/voice that started making everything go foobar, fear of death is a very powerful fear and for near immortal beings with creation magics could be spread fast from a singular point creating untold destruction. It would be also add another layer of sadness to Hades's tale if he inadvertently caused the original calamity by forcing this soul back into the underworld.

[Scintilla]

It is interesting to know Hades was the last to be apart of the convocation of the fourteen, meaning our original self already held a prominent position within Amaurotian society before Emet-Selch seat was filled, wonder what we were in charge of and what our seat name was too..

I've only read the new story once so there was probably much that I overlooked but, if the WoL's original self was already a part of the convocation (assuming we're right and they were), wouldn't they already know about Hades appointment to the position? Rather than having to be told so by Hades or learning of it through rumour?

[Daralii]

I was under the impression that Primals do have souls at this point. Ifrit is very clearly Ifrit, Ramuh very clearly has sentience and a fairly long memory. If they were just new constructs as a result of Creation Magic (albeit a significantly nerfed version, due to the Sundering) they wouldn't retain memories, surely? They'd be far more limited by the imagination of their summoners, it makes more sense to me that "Ramuh" is pulled out of the Lifestream whenever he is summoned. As such, I imagine the Amaurot Phoenix to be something like a Proto-Primal, wouldn't be surprised if this case was reviewed and the concept refined to eventually summon Zodiark, at least.

It definitely seems that way. From the accidental creation of an arcane construct with a soul thanks to a defiant one flailing around in the Lifestream(?), to the deliberate creation of arcane constructs summoned by the user sacrificing their soul(Quetzacoatl), ultimately leading to His creation.