Tales from the Shadows

[Iscah]

I mean, I do think its a given that alternate timelines means infinite alternate timelines.

I guess I just dislike it when stories go that way. We could have had a simple: Change the past and thus change the future with Graha being a paradox that can only somehow exist thanks to the crystal tower. (And imo this is still not off the table as a possibility)

"Could have had"? That is what we have, except with the possibility that the old timeline split off rather than ceased to exist.

It does not imply that it "is a given that alternate timelines means infinite multiple timelines". I don't think there's evidence for that in this story at all.

As I wrote earlier, how it is described - and taken in combination with information from Alexander - implies that there is ONE split in the timeline created under extraordinary circumstances where a time traveler interfered with the past of their origin timepoint, making it impossible for events to lead back to their original time.

ie. If G'raha simply traveled back in time but didn't change anything, only watched it happen, he would witness the Eighth Calamity and eventually see his younger self released from the tower and prepare to travel back in time. There would only be one stable (but dying) timeline.

Instead he has prevented the Calamity that happened in his original timeline, making it impossible to see those same events play out. He has "changed tracks" and is now on a different path that will not lead to the timeline he originated from. This (I believe) is the one time that the timeline splits as a result of his actions, forcing both timelines to exist because they are both part of 'his story'. Once that single split has occurred, there won't be another one because there is no pre-established future for him to contradict from this point onwards.

The exact way he describes the plan to change time (in his conversation with Urianger) is a to create a "crossroads" - one deliberate point where we can take one path or the other.


Also interesting: the bit about the Namazu implying that - assuming we can trust Gyoshin's visions and Seigetsu's interpretation - he might be able to receive visions from the good future and not just the bad one, though perhaps only prior to "reaching the crossroads" and going down the other path.

(Could our character visit another timeline and just simply snatch Haurchefant out of it for greedy personal reasons? :'))

From my take on it: no, you can't.

You can't just "visit another timeline" and do this for the satisfaction of knowing he survives somewhere - you would travel back in time to that point, rescue him right in front of your very confused younger self... and you've split the timeline, because that is definitely not how you personally saw the event play out last time.

So now you're on a different path of history to the one you arrived from - can you return to the "present"? Or would you travel forward in time to realise you're still in that altered timeline where the other version of you - the one that saw you rescue Haurchefant - is the Warrior of Light doing all the Warrior-of-Lighty things you did. Meanwhile, you're stuck (and your 'home timeline' is minus a WoL) until the Ironworks manage to go an extra step in figuring out how to cross not only time and dimensions but also timelines. So good luck with that.

[Rannie]

Or they go back in time yet cant stop Hydaelyn from being summoned but they can end up causing her to be imprisoned on the moon instead of zodiark. All the while they are slowly culling the planet of life forms to sacrifice to him ,cause I mean after all he's a primal, and our character and others are doing all they can to free her from said imprisonment and the mortals, (what's left of them if any) are living in a constant state of fear of when the next batch of killing is going to happen.

How's that for a branching time line lol?

[Elladie]

So the logic of time travel is always one to explode peoples' minds but .... two contradictory things make me wonder if we're completely wrong about what's going on. Alexander says we can't go back in the past to change the future; everything that happened with Alexander was orchestrated to produce the 'right' future but it was always going to do that because apparently 'them's the laws'. Then suddenly Gra'ha et al throw that out of the window and DO change the future. But .... hold on .... they can't have changed the future because if they did, Gra'ha would cease to exist. So there's a time loop that exists on the way to the Bad Future that DOESN'T ACTUALLY CHANGE ANYTHING. Because it ALWAYS HAPPENED. That allows Alexander's Law to stand and also allows Gra'ha not to disappear; since nothing is different, of course he wouldn't disappear, and he was able -as he and we thought - to change time because nothing has changed in fact.
I would love them to go this way just because it would make a great story imo. Of course I'm just speculating but I can't currently come up with anything else that lets both Alexander's Law and Gra'ha continuing be true
And this is really badly expressed, but I'm rambling lol. I'll try and put it better once I'm not typing on my phone

[Alleluia]

So the logic of time travel is always one to explode peoples' minds but .... two contradictory things make me wonder if we're completely wrong about what's going on. Alexander says we can't go back in the past to change the future; everything that happened with Alexander was orchestrated to produce the 'right' future but it was always going to do that because apparently 'them's the laws'. Then suddenly Gra'ha et al throw that out of the window and DO change the future. But .... hold on .... they can't have changed the future because if they did, Gra'ha would cease to exist. So there's a time loop that exists on the way to the Bad Future that DOESN'T ACTUALLY CHANGE ANYTHING. Because it ALWAYS HAPPENED. That allows Alexander's Law to stand and also allows Gra'ha not to disappear; since nothing is different, of course he wouldn't disappear, and he was able -as he and we thought - to change time because nothing has changed in fact.
I would love them to go this way just because it would make a great story imo. Of course I'm just speculating but I can't currently come up with anything else that lets both Alexander's Law and Gra'ha continuing be true
And this is really badly expressed, but I'm rambling lol. I'll try and put it better once I'm not typing on my phone

I think you basically just expressed the alternate timelines idea. 8th Umbral timeline is unchanged and continues on, while our timeline has been effected by Exarch!G'raha. And you are right, this allows for "Alexander's Law" to still be true. Exarch!G'raha was always meant to hop from the 8th Umbral timeline to ours.

[Iscah]

My running theory on time travel is that we do not get lots of alternate timelines spawning off decisions or anything. As shown in Alexander, there is one timeline which is usually stable - but even in that story, there are hints that time could have been changed once people started messing with time travel, but was "kept on the right path" by Alexander.

I think that a split in the timeline is only possible when a time traveler does something that 'breaks' the timeline's natural stable state and makes it impossible for events to lead to the future they came from - otherwise their actions just get incorporated into the single stable timeline.

So at most, one timeline break "per trip back in time" and that's only if they manage to break something. And time travel itself is very rare.

[Ilenya]

Actually, thinking about it, mechanics in the a12 fight show that not doing something that should be done forcibly changes the timeline. Whether this fits with actual lore is another question.

[Rannie]

Holy shit guys (sorry for the language) but I FOUND ALPHA AND OMG on their adventure!!!!!

[Iscah]

Haha yeah, they turn up in quite a few different places! Some are easy to spot, some are out of the way like Behemoth's domain in Coerthas. I've also seen them in Ok' Zundu and I think people said they can be in the upstairs kitchen at Revenant's Toll.

[Rannie]

Nice that's the first time I've EVER seen something like that. I've never even seen Ghost edda (if it actually happens) in Grid.

[MrThinker]

Nice that's the first time I've EVER seen something like that. I've never even seen Ghost edda (if it actually happens) in Grid.

I remember reading that Ghost Edda had a very slim chance of appearing in the 3 original city states during the patch tam tara hard was released. But I was under the impression they got rid of the easter egg the next patch, or at the latest, when floor 50 of PoTD wrappeded up Edda's story.