*Spoilers* Questions about Shadowbringers

[Iscah]

I think the issue is that you're trying to define the variable text from quest completion as an in-universe manipulation of time, where I don't see any reason to view it as anything more than an out-of-universe gameplay contrivance. It allows for an established sequence of events and character growth without forcing the players to complete every quest along the way, and without taking the route of telling the player "remember when X happened" if they haven't done X.

[Ilenya]

I'm just imagining this moment of calling up the Garleans and going "Hey, uh, there's this weird tower thing we need to look inside, can you hold off for a bit?" "Hey, there's this...Massive Primal I've been ignoring, can I go take care of it?"

[EdwinLi]

I think the issue is that you're trying to define the variable text from quest completion as an in-universe manipulation of time, where I don't see any reason to view it as anything more than an out-of-universe gameplay contrivance. It allows for an established sequence of events and character growth without forcing the players to complete every quest along the way, and without taking the route of telling the player "remember when X happened" if they haven't done X.

Because the main post is asking about TIMELINE and which one is the MSQ possibly using to explain if the Old timeline still exists or not either as a separate timeline, part of a intended event in a single timeline, or erased from existance to be replaced with this new timeline. Thus I answered the post within how Timeline works with the MSQ by taking in all possible mixing of events both Main and Optional as a Multiple Timeline normally does by taking into account all variations of events and difference in WoL appearance are in fact different Timelines.

Timeline topic in storyline is a very convoluted subject because it will include all possible outcomes and constant narrowing down on which possible Timeline Theory they maybe using.

As I said before, in story perspective we are either in a Block Timeline or a Time Remnant Timeline.

[Iscah]

Because the main post is asking about TIMELINE and which one is the MSQ possibly using.

Read it again. It's not asking "which timeline we're in". It's asking whether the timeline we're not in still exists - and that's a question that can be answered with the assumption we are in a relatively simple "Y-shaped" timeline with one single sequence of events up until the events of Shadowbringers cause it to split into two paths.

That's is how the flow of time has been described to us in the game up to this point. One timeline with a single "crossroads" created to change the path of history away from the dark future.

Any other variable events are altered by external gameplay factors, not portrayed in-game as doing something that changes the past and affects the present. Our character is not time-traveling, just filling in gaps that should have been completed earlier - and any remarks about us not having met people yet are "temporary measures" until we've done the quests as intended.

There's no version of the story where doing CT post-Shadowbringers actually makes sense - but it's a good enough excuse to cover the gap until the player completes that story and puts it in the proper earlier position. And it's not just a matter of it being immediately replaced by the "happened in 2.X" version of events, because if the Exarch saying we haven't met his past self is a valid timeline, then CT has to have happened post-timeline-split in 5.0 for him - and that doesn't make sense, therefore that timeline shouldn't be possible, therefore it shouldn't be considered equally canon. It's just a temporary fill-in for the proper version of events.

And generally speaking, for the sake of discussing the story, my understanding is that we treat the single "all quests complete" version of the story as canon and ignore the variations. You can look at the variations and maybe learn something interesting from them, but they're not supposed to happen that way.

[Iscah]

I'm just imagining this moment of calling up the Garleans and going "Hey, uh, there's this weird tower thing we need to look inside, can you hold off for a bit?" "Hey, there's this...Massive Primal I've been ignoring, can I go take care of it?"

Now I'm picturing the Scions trying to stall for time while we go to investigate the tower... and have to deal with bratty young G'raha sending us on his merry chase for aethersand, blissfully unaware of how desperate our situation is.

[Ilenya]

Now I'm picturing the Scions trying to stall for time while we go to investigate the tower... and have to deal with bratty young G'raha sending us on his merry chase for aethersand, blissfully unaware of how desperate our situation is.

I suppose, thinking about it, CT is the only one that WoL is required to have done to fit OMG's story. There could have been other Adventurers who happened to get involved with Alexander/Omega, since both are...Basically required for the story to make sense, but CT's just always going to be a catching point.

[Iscah]

I suppose, thinking about it, CT is the only one that WoL is required to have done to fit OMG's story. There could have been other Adventurers who happened to get involved with Alexander/Omega, since both are...Basically required for the story to make sense, but CT's just always going to be a catching point.

Technically yes, for now at least - although from memory I think G'raha tells Urianger that the concepts of time travel were developed out of certain events that happened during the WoL's adventures, implying that we historically did them.

But again, canonically we're supposed to have done the quests as they become available to us, and the time travel plot has opted to treat them as done rather than try to convolutedly follow the maybe-or-maybe-not approach of the "present day" MSQ.

Also, Omega is an "only the WoL could do this" due to Midgardsormr's involvement, and Dayan's expository talk at the wrap-up of the Alexander story seems to rely on our plot significance.

[Ilenya]

Technically yes, for now at least...

Just as a note, I'm not being entirely serious with my train of thoughts, just trying to figure out how it could possibly have happened. Just lots of random train of thoughts.

[MrThinker]

Technically yes, for now at least - although from memory I think G'raha tells Urianger that the concepts of time travel were developed out of certain events that happened during the WoL's adventures, implying that we historically did them.

Your memory is absolutely 100% correct here.

EDIT: Relevant Quotation from "The Unbroken Thread" - cutscene 1

Certainly. But where to begin? I should start with those great minds who survived the Calamity─Cid Garlond being perhaps the greatest. In hopes of staying the unending tides of war, he and his fellows pursued all manner of possible solutions. One of these was rooted in a theory which unified several fundamental principles discovered over the course of the Warrior of Light's adventures. It proposed a method by which one could enter the river of time, traverse the rift, and leap between worlds.

This part of the cutscene remains unchanged regardless of quest progression, so yes it assumes that the WoL (and not some other adventurers) will eventually, if they haven't already, beat Alexander, Omega, and the Cloud of Darkness.

[LineageRazor]

Having read all this back-and-forth, I gotta say I'm WAY more on-board with Iscah's interpretation than Edwin's Block thingy.

To me, it's simple: the moment your character steps into the first quest of Heavensward, she has canonically done EVERYTHING THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO in ARR. CT? Done. Coil? Done. Leveled every job? Done. Crafted/gathered all the things? Done. Relicked all the weapons? Done.

Note: the CHARACTER has done all these things, even if the player has not. For things the PLAYER has not yet done, the game is coy, and works the dialog to avoid giving too much away, just in case the player wants to go back and do them later. But it's still the case that these things are part of the character's history. They are not added in retroactively as the player does them - they are already done. The player doing them after the fact is, at best, a flashback, or maybe an Echo vision.

Same goes for the first step into Stormblood. Void Ark? Done. Alexander. Done. Etc. First step into Shadowbringers? You get the idea.