So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[ForteNightshade]

I honestly think we are currently at a good balance of difficulty curve.

Extreme Innocence and Tatiana are prime examples for the sheer amount of enrages people hit. While Eden normal is for people to experience the story. Savage is has a decent difficulty curve. and once an Ultimate comes around that is suppose to be the toughest of the toughest.

The issue for most of the complains that this game is too easy and accessable is because SE philosophy is asking people to not kill themselves over the game like some of the truly hardcore would. Time and time again in interviews they state that "we are very honored you play your game, but please take a break its ok well still be here when you come back." you can tangibly see it in their game design.

I disagree. You can have an absurd amount of deaths in EX Primals now. People have cleared with upwards of fifteen because they're scaled so incredibly low for a supposedly "harder" fight. When people ask for content to be harder, they aren't wanting it to be super difficult. They're wanting it to not be braindead. Eden Normal is practically impossible to fail unless the entire group has never done it before. Now I don't think it should be crazy hard. Just something above "I have a pulse."

[BigBossCL]

I disagree. You can have an absurd amount of deaths in EX Primals now. People have cleared with upwards of fifteen because they're scaled so incredibly low for a supposedly "harder" fight. When people ask for content to be harder, they aren't wanting it to be super difficult. They're wanting it to not be braindead. Eden Normal is practically impossible to fail unless the entire group has never done it before. Now I don't think it should be crazy hard. Just something above "I have a pulse."

Gotta disagree. I think we're at a great balance atm. If you want tougher, that's coming.

[ForteNightshade]

Gotta disagree. I think we're at a great balance atm. If you want tougher, that's coming.

When content is so easy half the party could AFK and you'd clear no problem. I don't see how that's "great balance." Citing Ultimate misses the point. Like I said, I don't want everything to Ultimate level. I just think it's poorly designed that everything below Savage is essentially one big participation ribbon. As someone who has cleared Ultimate, I still like dabbling in other content that doesn't require nearly that level of commitment. Unfortunately, the game doesn't offer much in that regard because everything is so easy.

[Melichoir]

I honestly think we are currently at a good balance of difficulty curve.

Extreme Innocence and Tatiana are prime examples for the sheer amount of enrages people hit. While Eden normal is for people to experience the story. Savage is has a decent difficulty curve. and once an Ultimate comes around that is suppose to be the toughest of the toughest.

The issue for most of the complains that this game is too easy and accessable is because SE philosophy is asking people to not kill themselves over the game like some of the truly hardcore would. Time and time again in interviews they state that "we are very honored you play your game, but please take a break its ok well still be here when you come back." you can tangibly see it in their game design.

These fights arent hard, thats the point. They can be punishing when you do make mistakes, but they are not hard encounters. A few problems people have is they think that you have to be hardcore and spend every waking minute practicing things to beat these fights. But both EX modes just require you to really understand how the mechanic operates. You see a stack marker, you stack. You see a slow wind up cast towards the tank, probably a tank buster. See someone with a red marker, probably an aoe on their location, they need to move out from group. Most mechanics have you simply stand in a specific place. If you have an ok understanding of your job, and of the mechanics, its purely an issue of executing. And it really isnt that hard. Maybe a little practice and a few wipes.

What is honestly expected of you in these fights isnt anything that youd "Kill Yourself" over doing. If were talking savage, thats a bit more coodination and effort, and its understandable if people dont want to do that. But current EX mode is where I feel the casual player should be at skill wise. That should be roughly how difficult the final boss of a lvl 80 post MSQ dungeon should be. A fight that if you understand how the mechanics work and your class, youll have no issue downing the boss. And that is how EX mode is. Its only something youll kill yourself over if you have no idea how to play your class or have no idea how boss mechanics work. How many tanks Ive seen who dont CD tank busters and get mad at healers cause they didnt keep them alive. Or before ShB, how many tanks just spammed their aggro combo the entire fight, never once using a more powerful DPS combo. How many healers Ive seen stand at the very edge of an arena and spam AoE heals and watch the party wipe not realizing your AoE heal has a range. Or argue that all they need to do is heal, and if no one needs healing they just stand there doing nothing. How many DPS who stand in Avoidable AoEs while they sit there and spam one or two skills thinking that they dont have to move, and then die to DPS checks or debuffs. Its all ok cause healer just res you! Not an issue! And if they dont have swift cast, demand they res you with a hardcast. There are a lot of players who really do phone it in. Not all, and there are plenty more who want to learn and get better - they just need the right environment. But this idea that having basic understanding of the class you play or how a fight operates is "Killing yourself" is just an excuse IMO for players to not care. And when better players see this, and have to carry someone phoning it in, it burns their chaps usually.

I would rather have in my party players who want to learn and improve and seek out challenges to do just that, then players who say EX mode is 'to hard' and they shouldnt have to kill themselves on a fight to get loot or mounts or etc.

[Arthrun]

These fights arent hard, thats the point. They can be punishing when you do make mistakes, but they are not hard encounters. A few problems people have is they think that you have to be hardcore and spend every waking minute practicing things to beat these fights. But both EX modes just require you to really understand how the mechanic operates. You see a stack marker, you stack. You see a slow wind up cast towards the tank, probably a tank buster. See someone with a red marker, probably an aoe on their location, they need to move out from group. Most mechanics have you simply stand in a specific place. If you have an ok understanding of your job, and of the mechanics, its purely an issue of executing. And it really isnt that hard. Maybe a little practice and a few wipes.

What is honestly expected of you in these fights isnt anything that youd "Kill Yourself" over doing. If were talking savage, thats a bit more coodination and effort, and its understandable if people dont want to do that. But current EX mode is where I feel the casual player should be at skill wise. That should be roughly how difficult the final boss of a lvl 80 post MSQ dungeon should be. A fight that if you understand how the mechanics work and your class, youll have no issue downing the boss. And that is how EX mode is. Its only something youll kill yourself over if you have no idea how to play your class or have no idea how boss mechanics work. How many tanks Ive seen who dont CD tank busters and get mad at healers cause they didnt keep them alive. Or before ShB, how many tanks just spammed their aggro combo the entire fight, never once using a more powerful DPS combo. How many healers Ive seen stand at the very edge of an arena and spam AoE heals and watch the party wipe not realizing your AoE heal has a range. Or argue that all they need to do is heal, and if no one needs healing they just stand there doing nothing. How many DPS who stand in Avoidable AoEs while they sit there and spam one or two skills thinking that they dont have to move, and then die to DPS checks or debuffs. Its all ok cause healer just res you! Not an issue! And if they dont have swift cast, demand they res you with a hardcast. There are a lot of players who really do phone it in. Not all, and there are plenty more who want to learn and get better - they just need the right environment. But this idea that having basic understanding of the class you play or how a fight operates is "Killing yourself" is just an excuse IMO for players to not care. And when better players see this, and have to carry someone phoning it in, it burns their chaps usually.

I would rather have in my party players who want to learn and improve and seek out challenges to do just that, then players who say EX mode is 'to hard' and they shouldnt have to kill themselves on a fight to get loot or mounts or etc.

I do not disagree with you. and do too believe casuals should be at extreme trial levels.

However: skilled players like me and yourself Will consider fights that we can learn and get down regularly simple and easy fights. I am coming from a mythic raider in Warcraft. FFXIV seems so easy to me but for whatever reason I enjoy it so much more than the mechanic heavy fights like in Crucible of storms or Azshara's eternal palace.

You also have to understand that some come to FFXIV because they are too shy or consider Extreme trials or Mythic raiding too stressful for them to even want to do them. Darksouls is a beloved game. But I absolutely will consider that game trash because I think that games that rely solely on their difficulty to be decent is not a decent game at all.

back on topic. I currently enjoy the difficulty within FFXIV because I do not feel stressed while playing on extreme or savage. And people have to understand that YES there are those out there that are very skilled but do consider Extreme stressful to them. If I want the stress of difficulty I would go play WoW's Mythic +22. or smack my head on mythic Azshara.

I play FFXIV because I feel like I can relax and enjoy myself I do extreme and savage because I do not consider them all that bad. But there are others who find those boss fights very stressful. lets take Persona 5 as an example. I play that game on normal difficulty. Not enough to be mind dumb like its easy mode is. but not annoying like hard is. I can also garentee why fire emblem awakening is so popular was because it had super casual mode. Which made it accessible to inexperienced players....which then the veterans would yell at them because they are not playing at classic hard mode.

[AphraelAmarantha]

I would rather have in my party players who want to learn and improve and seek out challenges to do just that, then players who say EX mode is 'to hard' and they shouldnt have to kill themselves on a fight to get loot or mounts or etc.

But it is too hard. It's why I don't do Savage or EX, I can't memorize all of that stuff that is happening. Individual mechanics is fine but once they start over lapping and causing havoc is when I get into trouble, I can't deal with multi-tasking like that, it's too much. I've done a few EX's and they are not fun. Current difficulty is fine. It's why everything is easy, because not everyone has that skill level that you claim everyone playing the game should have. Can you imagine EX level msq bosses? Most casuals (which includes me) would never be able to progress through the story because they are stuck on that one boss (remembers Shinryu nightmare when it first came out).

[NessaWyvern]

But it is too hard. It's why I don't do Savage or EX, I can't memorize all of that stuff that is happening. Individual mechanics is fine but once they start over lapping and causing havoc is when I get into trouble, I can't deal with multi-tasking like that, it's too much.

I also identify as a casual, and just saying from experience, you're probably being too hard on yourself and just need more practice.
Back when leviathan ex came out, I thought I'd never be able to do it, due to all the mechanics, and my not so good ping. But it turned out I could, I just needed a little more practice.
It ended up being my favourite EX for many years, and I used it for light farming for relics, and it was the very first ex mount in my collection.

Something being really hard is not a bad thing. The greater the challenge, the greater the relief and joy when you beat it. Sure it can be frustrating, but frustration is part of the experience, and you can learn to enjoy the frustration also.


Also... #AddMorePvPToFFXIV (but honestly, what I have found, is that PvP trains your awareness and reaction times, and can make you play better in PvE content.)

[Arthrun]

But it is too hard. It's why I don't do Savage or EX, I can't memorize all of that stuff that is happening. Individual mechanics is fine but once they start over lapping and causing havoc is when I get into trouble, I can't deal with multi-tasking like that, it's too much. I've done a few EX's and they are not fun. Current difficulty is fine. It's why everything is easy, because not everyone has that skill level that you claim everyone playing the game should have. Can you imagine EX level msq bosses? Most casuals (which includes me) would never be able to progress through the story because they are stuck on that one boss (remembers Shinryu nightmare when it first came out).

You get a like because you are a example of what my posts were talking about. And I honestly would rather have more players to hang out with than to have super hard story content just to appease some arbitrary % of the player base.

[AphraelAmarantha]

Sure it can be frustrating, but frustration is part of the experience, and you can learn to enjoy the frustration also.


Also... #AddMorePvPToFFXIV

lol, I hate being frustrated. If a game frustrates me, I just zone out and stop playing. While I don't mind mild difficulty, I shouldn't be getting frustrated and angry at a video game, it's just a game. I play games to have fun, being frustrated is not fun. When I get to that point and it is just too difficult, I just quit because I am no longer having fun.

[NessaWyvern]

lol, I hate being frustrated. If a game frustrates me, I just zone out and stop playing. While I don't mind mild difficulty, I shouldn't be getting frustrated and angry at a video game, it's just a game. I play games to have fun, being frustrated is not fun. When I get to that point and it is just too difficult, I just quit because I am no longer having fun.

I guess we differ there XD Frustration has its own kind of fun for me, and I think that's why the dark souls series have so many people play it.
I've played vidya games for 20 years now, and if I quit just because the game got frustrating, there wouldn't be many games I have completed. XD

If there's no challenge at all, it just bores me. I tend to quit for the day after doing a lvl 50/60/70 roulette, as I just end up getting bored and sleepy.
So those in the thread who ask for more challenge are probably at the skill level where everything bores them, and they need something with more teeth.