I love where Summoner is at right now

[Shougun]

Personally I like the Egi Assault idea a lot and want to continue to see ideas like that.

Though I do think things could possibly be tweaked just for easier life, beyond a few specifics I just sort of think "SE vague direction this way, yes thanks <3" and I'd be happy lol. Seems to me it just needs a bit more flow in the mechanical side- like egi / demi dash if they need to get into range. Rather than delayed movement to you delayed movement back to the enemy and then cast- oof. And on delay making the egi related spells go faster (so there is less of a ghosting feel). Of course they can work on some sort of flow in game mechanics (which there are loads of suggested options, personally always cheering for things that relate to the benefit primal themes).

Hopefully they can follow that vague "make it smoother" without removing anything fun. Depending on delays or removal of certain things they could add even more flavor to the egi assaults, especially if they do something to cause them to be staggered/delayed for easier weaving and less of a you've got your self and raid buffs up so "PRESS THEM ALL, GO GO GO".

the second is that it's redundant with Energy Drain and Fester in the rotation.

Honestly I'd much rather have the egi assaults over energy drain and fester. If one was to be removed, I'd like it to be those two over the Egi Assaults. That'd allow for a huge egi assault buff too, which would be lovely imo. Though I'm not suggesting that as first solution to Summoner's issues either lol. Just if we're at the end of the rope, Egi spells >> Energy Drain and Fester (imo).

[Verlyn]

I'd be on board with any emphasis on Egi Assault if it were responsive with instant feedback. That's what people don't like about the move, more than its superfluous "Here is a button that you just push." role in your rotation.

[remiff]

The gameplay itself may improve, reduce the number of egi-assault and make it more powerful, make ruin IV automatic, every 15 sec, increase the stack to 6.

-rework energy siphon and energy drain.

increase the damage of ifrit 60-> 90 .

give 10% damage back to dreadwyrm trance and merge it to the bahamut summon 15-> 20 sec.

give neutral damage to bane with a potency of 150, and always inflicts dot .

increase the yalms of demi
and make them effective during the Summoner mouvement.

make devotion a summoner ability no longer be an egi ability .

Buff ruin potency to 180 ruin II- ruin III 220- ruin IV 300, and delete ruination effect.

Buff tri-desaster 70 -> 90 '' ruination effect deleted '' .

instant rez, but put a cd of 180 sec,

[Aomine1992]

SMN is ok but still needs a lot of work done too it, I know you wanna be the minority voice but the job still has serious flaws and issues messing up its dps, that’s a no bueno for a dps

[Brandedblade]

If I had a say, what I'd want to see is Summon Phoenix seperated from firebird trance. That way the cycle is Trance -> Summon -> Trance -> Summon, whereas the the trance windows give you your chance to manage your aetherflow and pet ogcds, and the summon windows are your "plant yourself and turret" my only real issue is coming up with a way to make firebird feel more distinct from dwt, since currently summon Phoenix being the way it is goes change your rotation.

[Rika007]

If I had a say, what I'd want to see is Summon Phoenix seperated from firebird trance. That way the cycle is Trance -> Summon -> Trance -> Summon, whereas the the trance windows give you your chance to manage your aetherflow and pet ogcds, and the summon windows are your "plant yourself and turret" my only real issue is coming up with a way to make firebird feel more distinct from dwt, since currently summon Phoenix being the way it is goes change your rotation.

The whole goal of the rework was to reduce how long 4.0 Summoner's opener is and how punished the job was by any deaths during the cycle. Splitting FBT from Phoenix would make this actively even worse. It's why most players wan't to see DWT instead go the same route as FBT and summon Bahamut as well, as that will remove some of the bloat of the rotation. The biggest issue with the job right now is that there is simply put too many things that sound good by themselves but when all thrown together it creates too much going on.

[Rika007]

I feel like this biggest issue with Summoner is that since 2.0 it's the only job that hasn't had any significant pruning of certain mechanics, and instead keeps just pouring on more and more stuff to the rotation. The only thing mechanically that Summoner has really lost over time was the old pet system, and that was fully replaced by the egi assault system instead anyway. Every job that people really like a lot right now essentially has only two or three central mechanics, and all of them tie into eachother. Black Mage has everything that revolves around enochain (which includes the astral fire/umbral ice management), the polyglot rotation, and the management of it's buffs, all flow together into one continuous movement where everything is about keeping that timer going to get off more Polyglot attacks and never stop casting. Dragoon bases everything around it's continuous combo system, it's OGCD's and it's Blood/Life of the dragon combo, which all once again flows into keeping that Blood of the dragon buff going, where each and every mechanic plays an active part in.

Summoner doesn't do this. It's all individual systems that have separate effects with no bearing on each other. For all the issues that came from it, 4.0 Summoner didn't have this issue. Your dots fueled your strongest oGCD's from aetherflow, your aetherflow gave you the ability to use the oGCD's, the use of those oGCD's gave you the ability to trance, and the use of trance gave you the ability to summon bahamut. But this is no longer the case. Now the kits only synergy is the synergy between dot's and Fester. Outside of that everything is completely isolated. You could just flat out remove multiple things from Summoners kit or at bare minimum massively par down them, and instead enhance the parts you keep and it would leave the job feeling much more coherent and fun to play. Like say you completely remove the aetherflow mechanic, turn Fester and Painflare into charged actions that share the same recast timer, buff egi-assault but remove eg-assault 2, merge dreadwyrm and bahamut so they function similar to how FBT and pheonix work. This would make the job feel and operate just so much smoother.

Not saying that they should go that route. Maybe they should limit the Demi's and trances and instead focus on aetherflow and egi's (I doubt most players would feel that way but just throwing it out there). The key thing is that while some jobs feel too bare bones right now (Bard, Red Mage etc..) Summoner is the exact opposite. There is too much going on in SMN. It's trying to pack in 4 separate expansions worth of mechanics into one. Other jobs have evolved and dropped or changed certain mechanics as time has gone on. It's time for SMN to do the same.

[Dyvid]

The whole goal of the rework was to reduce how long 4.0 Summoner's opener is and how punished the job was by any deaths during the cycle. Splitting FBT from Phoenix would make this actively even worse. It's why most players wan't to see DWT instead go the same route as FBT and summon Bahamut as well, as that will remove some of the bloat of the rotation. The biggest issue with the job right now is that there is simply put too many things that sound good by themselves but when all thrown together it creates too much going on.

Well to be fair, SE needs to decide how long they want job rotations to be. It seems like they want 2 minute rotation but then make stuff like Divination and Battle Litany a 3 minute timer. I think we have a good mix of abilities but needs to be reshuffled and redesigned into a method that works together.

1. Make Aetherflow the resources of Egi Assault as well as the build mechanic for DWT. Give Aetherflow 4 stacks rather than 2, Energy Drain / Energy Siphon 2 charges.

1. Change DWT to work similar to FWT with Outburst > Painflare and Ruin 3 > Ruin 4. At 72 Bahamut is summoned with DWT.

1. Fester is a 20s hard recast and extend DoTs by 10s

1. Make Divination 120s

[Brandedblade]

The whole goal of the rework was to reduce how long 4.0 Summoner's opener is and how punished the job was by any deaths during the cycle. Splitting FBT from Phoenix would make this actively even worse. It's why most players wan't to see DWT instead go the same route as FBT and summon Bahamut as well, as that will remove some of the bloat of the rotation. The biggest issue with the job right now is that there is simply put too many things that sound good by themselves but when all thrown together it creates too much going on.

I'm under the impression one of the issues with gameplay flow is the immense amount of ogcd weaving you need to do if you want to keep on top of everything. That's what a great about DWT is that it gives you the nessecary weave space to manage all the abilities. Whereas with summon Phoenix you cant weave all your egi assaults because of Phoenix.

I have thought more about it and the suggestion people have been making about just keeping egis out during summon windows would also be a sufficient solution. But I'm rather fond of the idea of 30 sec cycles of "instant casts +egi control" and "stand still and turret out massive damage with a demi summon"

[Rika007]

'snip'

That's just one of the issues, but it is one of the bigger ones yes. And while it would be an option, for those of us who were massive fans of 4.0 Summoner (which was one of the more popular jobs in the game), we'd rather instead see them just par down the amount of oGCD's a bit. 4.0 Summoner had it's fair share of oGCD's but the addition of a second means of gaining aetherflow, having it happen twice as often, having Aetherflow abilties cooldown even faster, AND adding on the egi-assaults has just created too much. 4.0 had its moments of insane hectic pace, but it also had it's 'cooldown' moments. You would go through a massive burst of insane weaving during your intitial two dreadwyrms, then take a breath for a bit, then plunge into it again in Bahamut. With new summoner their is no cooldown period. And on a caster this can be very off putting for many players. It makes sense for a class like MCH, BRD, or MNK to be a high CPM job. They don't have cast times to deal with. Unless they plan on making everything instant on Summoner, they need to back off this stance.