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  1. #31
    Player
    Samsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    331
    Character
    Amael Yuki
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by MariaArvana View Post
    Your new LD would only be effective against single hit tank busters, or TB's that don't have more than 2 instances of fatal damage within their duration. Its a small (arguably, since most healers plan their uses of Bene anyway in static situations) buff to healers to not have to heal it, but a direct nerf on what LD itself can achieve. If you want to think that's not a nerf that's your choice, but given that your new LD idea literally cannot accomplish all the same things as current LD can, I see it as a direct nerf to functionality. Because factually, your idea is a nerf to LD itself.

    The real buff to do here is to separate the doom part of WD into its own separate debuff and make it not remove the immunity aspect of WD when its cleansed. Keeps the same functionality, but now you're allowed to heal the DRK gradually over the course of 10s instead of pushing Bene or super healing them at the end. Maybe toss in the extra healing power to make the downside even easier to manage.

    Don't nerf functionality, buff the downside.
    Those kinds of tankbusters are the majority though, so that's why I think it would be better. At least you acknowledge it has both pros and cons. Yeah it's not the only way to make it better but I think it would be an interesting way to make it better. Your proposal is not bad either and I would be fine with both, I just like to add little more spice to it.
    (0)

  2. #32
    Player
    Jandor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3,479
    Character
    Tal Young
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    I don't think the suggestion is to take damage and heal at the same time (i.e. dreadspikes).

    We're talking about something in-between Holmgang and Hallowed Ground. Drop down to 1 HP with Living Dead, and Walking Dead triggers. You're now invulnerable for the next 10 seconds, but can't be healed directly. Instead, any damage that you would have taken (and/or perhaps dealt) counts as healing. You'd have to be fairly selective in terms of when you use it. In places where there's a tankbuster followed by little to no outgoing damage (because of AoEs, etc.) or an untargetable boss, you'd potentially run the risk of sitting at 1 HP while being unable to be healed. But it would still be a significant improvement on the present ability. And it would actually give Living Dead a reason to be on a longer recast than Holmgang.
    Yeah, this is the best one I think.

    Walking dead doesn't require healing to 100% or you die, instead the 'messing it up' potential comes from not getting hit enough.
    (0)

  3. #33
    Player
    MaraD_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    290
    Character
    Hede Devaul
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandor View Post
    Yeah, this is the best one I think.

    Walking dead doesn't require healing to 100% or you die, instead the 'messing it up' potential comes from not getting hit enough.
    It would actually make more sense to have a temp HP shield on DRK, if their invuln was like this. (Rather than being "better" for a GNB.)
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player
    Danelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    305
    Character
    Vann Wood
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 83
    Quote Originally Posted by Samsta View Post
    Make walking dead status also convert damage you take into healing instead, this way it's easier to get back to 100% without eating all the healers resources but they would still probably need to heal you for some hp. Not only is this flavor approriate (you turn into a zombie kind of status where damage heals you) but it makes the ability much better and gives it unique interaction with some tankbusters. For example during triple titan tankbuster if you survive the first hit, the second would turn you to walking dead and third would heal you up, making it probably the best immunity cd for that fight while still requiring some healing in other fights. Cooldown could be adjusted appropriately if needed.
    I like it but the devil would be in the details. For multi hit tb it would be unfortunate to get into WD status then be healed/cleansed just to take the next leg of it and die. It would still need some guaranteed invincibility window. Maybe a guaranteed invincibilty window of 8-10 seconds but WD effect must be cleansed within 10 seconds.

    It all really depends on how the healing would be calculated.

    It really would fill a niche for DRK considering its gutted self sustain this expansion. LD mechanic would have been bettered paired with a high snap self-sustain job like pld or war (although I wouldn't wish this invulv on anyone).
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player
    Khalithar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,555
    Character
    Khalith Mateo
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Better idea, remove the “get healed or die” on it and the “reduce to 1 hp” of superbolide. The tank ultimates shouldn’t have weaknesses or drawbacks.
    (1)

  6. #36
    Player
    aqskerorokero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    279
    Character
    Aquis Onionslicer
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Let Fray became a sacrificial lamb to walking dead debuff!
    (0)

  7. #37
    Player
    TouchandFeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,835
    Character
    Vespereaux Vaillantes
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 91
    Quote Originally Posted by Khalithar View Post
    Better idea, remove the “get healed or die” on it and the “reduce to 1 hp” of superbolide. The tank ultimates shouldn’t have weaknesses or drawbacks.
    Then they would likely have to make them all exactly the same ability with the same effect, same duration and same recast since all of those differences are themselves weaknesses and/or strengths.

    Just looking at Superbolide, if you were to remove the "drop to 1 hp" effect from it, it would just be a better Hallowed Ground since the 60s lower recast more than makes up for a 2s shorter duration in the vast majority of use cases.

    Furthermore, the "drop to 1hp" effect of Superbolide is not exactly a "weakness" and more of an equalizer between it and Holmgang and Living Dead. Both of those abilities only mitigate damage when the tank is at 1hp. Before hitting 1hp, the tank is in no different position than if they hadn't used their ability. Superbolide basically just forcibly has the tank activate that condition of "only starts really doing anything at 1hp" and makes them immune to virtually all damage, which is still effectively a stronger immunity than Living Dead or Holmgang which still need to hit 1hp to get the "invulnerability" aspect of their abilities but can still take damage but just not die, hence the shorter recast on those abilities as a counter-balance.

    Also, keep in mind that the "drop to 1hp" effect can managed quite easily in a similar way to maximizing up-time on Holmgang.
    In the instance of a buster that would kill you right out, it is no different than popping Holmgang right before the buster since you would pretty immediately reduced to 1hp with either ability, you just get the benefit of not taking damage for the duration with Superbolide.
    In the instance of a stream of high incoming damage, like in a wall-to-wall pull, you do the same thing as you would with Holmgang where you wait until you hp has gotten very low before popping your invuln, therefore maximizing uptime with Holmgang and minimizing the hp lost when dropping to 1hp with Superbolide.

    Built in "weaknesses" are not by themselves bad, they provide the differences and flavours for abilities and tend to actually make the usage of these abilities more fun since they require some level of thought in their usage.
    The problems arise when this idea is taken too far and you end up with situations like too many "weaknesses" are layered together making the ability convoluted, the "weaknesses" result in an overly harsh punishment, and the player using the ability having no real control over managing the "weaknesses" of the ability. That's when you end up with something like Living Dead.
    (0)
    Last edited by TouchandFeel; 09-17-2019 at 04:30 AM.

  8. #38
    Player
    Danelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    305
    Character
    Vann Wood
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 83
    Quote Originally Posted by Khalithar View Post
    Better idea, remove the “get healed or die” on it and the “reduce to 1 hp” of superbolide. The tank ultimates shouldn’t have weaknesses or drawbacks.
    I doubt it would be viable in anything other than group content (it would be nice to be usable in solo challenges) with that change since DRK has a lack luster self sustain kit. BUT it’s still better than what we have currently. If they’re going to change it I doubt they’d clone a invulv.
    (0)

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