The state of healers is affecting everyone

[Gaethan_Tessula]

Whm has always been what is is now though, at most we had 3 dots in heavensward but you only used aero 1 if you needed to weave since it's overall potency was less than stone 3. So we basically lost 1 dot and gained afflatus misery. I can undestand astro, but whm is what is has always been, so if you don't like whm now you never did.

I'm sick of seeing this argument. You cannot say that losing a DoT, a close range oGCD, a dedicated weaving tool, and Cleric Stance in either form was nothing. Afflatus X are a nice addition, but it does not make up for the losses alone.

Extra DoTs to juggle are something both in terms of non-nuke GCDs and a skill gap. If they weren't, SE wouldn't rush to consolidate them expansion after expansion in order to idiot proof the game.

Fluid aura was something.

Cleric stance rewarded good risk assessment on program and good fight knowledge on farm. As a CD, it still played into aligning raid buffs.

[Samsta]

I'm sick of seeing this argument. You cannot say that losing a DoT, a close range oGCD, a dedicated weaving tool, and Cleric Stance in either form was nothing. Afflatus X are a nice addition, but it does not make up for the losses alone.

Extra DoTs to juggle are something both in terms of non-nuke GCDs and a skill gap. If they weren't, SE wouldn't rush to consolidate them expansion after expansion in order to idiot proof the game.

Fluid aura was something.

Cleric stance rewarded good risk assessment on program and good fight knowledge on farm. As a CD, it still played into aligning raid buffs.

The basic gameplay is the same, at least I don't feel any different playing it now versus playing it before. Yeah cleric stance was different but that has been gone for a while.

[Melichoir]

Well I mean what they could do to make everyone happy is revert SCH and AST, and Add 4 or 5 DPS skills to WHM, and tune fights so that the healers need to deal almost as much damage as DPS all the while making sure healing is not that important.

While Im being flippant, this is the crux of what Im not understanding. If youre bored with healing, then why isnt the argument to make fights even more pressing that forces even more healing and attention? Why is the fix for the classes "We need more DPS skills for healers." From what Ive been observing from Friends and FC mates doing Savage, the encounters arent designed for healers to sit there and bust out full DPS rotations, but instead use DPS skills as fillers between support and mechanics. DPS is a secondary factor, something you fill in for between handling mechanics and heals, not a primary factor where you pop heals when needed. This isnt me saying healers should just heal. Youre expected to do damage. Its not expected to be the focus of your time spent during fights.

So how come teh solution to the "Healers are boring" aspect isnt more healing intensive encounters or mechanically driven ones that force different healer interactions? Its always "We need DPS skills or its boring". Again, it comes across as people wanting to play a DPS role with a side of healing, and not a healing role with a side of DPS.

[Ilenya]

So how come teh solution to the "Healers are boring" aspect isnt more healing intensive encounters or mechanically driven ones that force different healer interactions? Its always "We need DPS skills or its boring". Again, it comes across as people wanting to play a DPS role with a side of healing, and not a healing role with a side of DPS.

Some of us have asked for that. Some of us were hoping the supposed healing focused gameplay meant it would be a thing.

It wasn't. At all.

[JunseiKei]

Well I mean what they could do to make everyone happy is revert SCH and AST, and Add 4 or 5 DPS skills to WHM, and tune fights so that the healers need to deal almost as much damage as DPS all the while making sure healing is not that important.

Subjective, obviously, but god no. I don't need 4 or 5 DPS skills on WHM. If I have nothing to add to a party but my heals and apparent DPS, but my only worth is DPS, give me a NUKE. However, I still am not happy with the whole vocal community's stance on healers and DPSing in general, because:

While Im being flippant, this is the crux of what Im not understanding. If youre bored with healing, then why isnt the argument to make fights even more pressing that forces even more healing and attention? Why is the fix for the classes "We need more DPS skills for healers."

...I've been asking the same thing for years now. That's why I don't mind the simple healer rotation if it means the fights are more entertaining. Having blindly progged and clearing all of savage that way and not just following some guide that someone else wrote, I didn't hurt for 'interesting' DPS rotations. The fights themselves were interesting and fun. That's what I want more of as a healer.

Unfortunately, I perceive that many that play healer don't really want to play healer but rather a DPS with heals as a secondary skill. So, I'm at least glad I'm not the only one that has gotten this feeling.

[Billythepancake]

Subjective, obviously, but god no. I don't need 4 or 5 DPS skills on WHM. If I have nothing to add to a party but my heals and apparent DPS, but my only worth is DPS, give me a NUKE. However, I still am not happy with the whole vocal community's stance on healers and DPSing in general, because:



...I've been asking the same thing for years now. That's why I don't mind the simple healer rotation if it means the fights are more entertaining. Having blindly progged and clearing all of savage that way and not just following some guide that someone else wrote, I didn't hurt for 'interesting' DPS rotations. The fights themselves were interesting and fun. That's what I want more of as a healer.

Unfortunately, I perceive that many that play healer don't really want to play healer but rather a DPS with heals as a secondary skill. So, I'm at least glad I'm not the only one that has gotten this feeling.

Fights are interesting when you're learning them, sure. Then what? Where do you go? Where do you improve? hitting the broil button more? The problem with expecting fights to get all of your complexity from is that, once you've learned them, it's the same as any other content, spam 1 button until someone gets a big ouchie, then stop for a second to heal, then back to spamming. On SB, I had room to improve, because I had several things to keep up with, and it was almost guaranteed I would forget something, be it a dot, be it crucial fairy placement, be it not using an ED on time to make the most use of quickened aetherflow, forgetting that the boss moves in that instant, so save shadowflare until he does. All of that is gone, so the ceiling on my class and room to improve is gone. I don't know about you, but I never want to hit a static cap where I feel like I can't get any better, and that's the problem with the current iteration of healers, that skill ceiling is too low. Something as simple as adding 2-3 more dots could alleviate that, at least to some degree, so long as they had different timers.

[JunseiKei]

Fights are interesting when you're learning them, sure. Then what? Where do you go? Where do you improve? hitting the broil button more? The problem with expecting fights to get all of your complexity from is that, once you've learned them, it's the same as any other content, spam 1 button until someone gets a big ouchie, then stop for a second to heal, then back to spamming.

With the confines of this game, then you optimize, but see, you've already done the fun part. Aside from making encounters random, I doubt it'd make anything interesting. Again, managing DoTs and hitting <interest number of buttons to use a 'rotation' on a healer> isn't difficult or interesting. There's no skill involved in the game past memorization for the fights and hoping your 7 companions don't wipe us all. I don't think people can handle randomization either, given Guardian or Midgardsormr, which aren't even truly random but rather 'will do X or will do Y and then will do the other option later.'

I honestly live for the moments when people mess up mechanics. It's the only time I feel like a healer: can I keep them alive and can we stay on track (but again, your worth as a healer is only how well you DPS, not how well you keep people alive because perfect play is something I don't expect outside of my raid group).

[Billythepancake]

With the confines of this game, then you optimize, but see, you've already done the fun part. Aside from making encounters random, I doubt it'd make anything interesting. Again, managing DoTs and hitting <interest number of buttons to use a 'rotation' on a healer> isn't difficult or interesting. There's no skill involved in the game past memorization for the fights and hoping your 7 companions don't wipe us all. I don't think people can handle randomization either, given Guardian or Midgardsormr, which aren't even truly random but rather 'will do X or will do Y and then will do the other option later.'

I honestly live for the moments when people mess up mechanics. It's the only time I feel like a healer: can I keep them alive and can we stay on track (but again, your worth as a healer is only how well you DPS, not how well you keep people alive because perfect play is something I don't expect outside of my raid group).

And yet every other class has SOMETHING to do when they're done learning a fight, they have several buttons to press, several timers to watch, things to keep up with. I genuinely don't understand why healers are the one class that are stuck with "you're only fun when learning, once you learn you sit in a corner and press your 1 button"

[LaylaTsarra]

And yet every other class has SOMETHING to do when they're done learning a fight, they have several buttons to press, several timers to watch, things to keep up with. I genuinely don't understand why healers are the one class that are stuck with "you're only fun when learning, once you learn you sit in a corner and press your 1 button"

Maybe if you find Scholar that boring perhaps you might want to try WHM or AST, or maybe try healing without your pet.

[JunseiKei]

And yet every other class has SOMETHING to do when they're done learning a fight, they have several buttons to press, several timers to watch, things to keep up with. I genuinely don't understand why healers are the one class that are stuck with "you're only fun when learning, once you learn you sit in a corner and press your 1 button"

I get the same feeling on DPS, because once you learn when to hit what for maximum greed and buff alignment, there is nothing else to learn. Again. Button 4 feels the same as button 1 which feels the same as button 9, which feels the same as 2, 5, 8, etc.

Didn't see your edit, so here:

On SB, I had room to improve, because I had several things to keep up with, and it was almost guaranteed I would forget something, be it a dot, be it crucial fairy placement, be it not using an ED on time to make the most use of quickened aetherflow, forgetting that the boss moves in that instant, so save shadowflare until he does. All of that is gone, so the ceiling on my class and room to improve is gone. I don't know about you, but I never want to hit a static cap where I feel like I can't get any better, and that's the problem with the current iteration of healers, that skill ceiling is too low. Something as simple as adding 2-3 more dots could alleviate that, at least to some degree, so long as they had different timers.

See, I feel this is mostly a scholar and astrologian complaint. Having played WHM since the game began and raided with it through everything, it's always been 'okay, can I get the other 7 people to NOT screw me over?' Usually to a resounding no. This expansion is the first time I've actually done well in raids because my team made the effort to help me do well as well. Ex: Eden Prime, pulling the boss so it goes to the same corner as the BLM and I; BLM, WHM and SCH all stacking there and not moving for Delta for nothing but uptime. Melees and tanks doing the baiting for puddles, leaving me and the other casters to sit and cast.

These are all vastly more beneficial to me and other players than having that many more buttons to hit. As a WHM, I hear 'more buttons to hit' and I think 'hEaLeRs AdJuSt AnD tHiNgS i WoN't Be AbLe To CaSt.' I can't tell you how many times I had to do Chain of Memeories in Alphascape 3 Savage despite having a scholar or astrologian having Ruin II or Lightspeed. Nah, make the white mage with no instant casts do the chain. At least Dia does damage on initial hit now; only took 6 years to get that to use when my team decides to be silly despite healers are only worth the DPS they output by the same team.