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  1. #1
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Straynge View Post
    My Bard is still very viable. People are freaking out too much. Our dps isn't that bad...it's still pretty much on par with where it's always been.
    In fact, you are right!
    However it's on par with Stormblood, back then we had:

    Hypercharge, Foe's Requiem, Palisade, Dismantle, Refresh

    Ranged DPS had much more support to justify the taxes on the low DPS which is not the case in SHB where ranged have Samba/Tactician but the Casters Addle is the same, if not better. As you said so well, it's not all about Raid DPS, it's also about mitigation and refreshing other's resources.

    EDIT: I indeed forgot the Bard 2% permanent crit passive which made the job strong as hell
    But let's never forget Dismantle, it was incredibly strong, 10% damage reduced from the target every 60s, it's almost available for every Earthen Fury in E4S P2&P3!
    (4)
    Last edited by CKNovel; 09-10-2019 at 12:15 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Akiudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    514
    Character
    Narumi Akiudo
    World
    Alpha
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by CKNovel View Post
    In fact, you are right!
    However it's on par with Stormblood, back then we had:

    Hypercharge, Foe's Requiem, Palisade, Dismantle, Refresh

    Ranged DPS had much more support to justify the taxes on the low DPS which is not the case in SHB where ranged have Samba/Tactician but the Casters Addle is the same, if not better. As you said so well, it's not all about Raid DPS, it's also about mitigation and refreshing other's resources
    you forgot the 2% crit bard gave passively to the group, which is exactly why it's not on par, personal is not raid dps, and mch lost hypercharge, bard lost the 2% crit aswell aswell foe's and personal dps basically didn't move an inch. and yes, refresh and palisade obviously ,may have justified somewhat weaker dps but yes, both are gone
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    Dogempire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,080
    Character
    Okami Amaterasuu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Honestly I just find it infuriating that at the moment an amazing ranged player is only worth a mediocre melee player, and they have negligible utility to boot.

    They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    RoyalBeef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    404
    Character
    Tiny Tina
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.
    This. I loved the AOE baiting/kiting in E1S.. I kite and shoot so our melees can go to town DPS wise. That's why I don't get the high DPS tax... have you tried kiting stuff during wildfire spam whilepaying attention to not run out of range or touch a wall of death? Yeah hitting positionals as melee can be hard, but ranged life isn't easy street all the time either. Imo when I kite stuff to grant melees 100% uptime and I'm able to keep 100% uptime while kiting, our DPS should be equal. Fight me :P
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    CKNovel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,915
    Character
    Cassia Kaedhan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.
    While the problem was on the mechanics, you don't need to force melee to have more downtime.
    I remember on O11S you had... 3 mechanics a ranged could bait if I remember well. If all mechanics could be baited, ranged would shine and their extra responsabilities would be a reason for extra dps.

    In UWU it was also the case, ranged had to/could bait multiple critical mechanics allowing the remaining of the group to freely DPS. That's why it's really weird, if there's a mechanic you can bait, you should bait it. But it always feel like "It's my time to shine moment, that's why I've been ranged" except that it happens... Twice in the current raid tier?
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Noitems's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    New Gridania
    Posts
    926
    Character
    Noitems Ever
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogempire View Post
    Honestly I just find it infuriating that at the moment an amazing ranged player is only worth a mediocre melee player, and they have negligible utility to boot.

    They need to either increase ranged's damage or force melee to have more downtime when the next savage tier rolls around.
    I'd much rather have the Ranged just be boosted as a whole. Dragging down melee to just meet up with the same current standards Ranged has isn't going to solve anything and if anything seems like an insult imo.

    It's more fun to have everyone playing at their best, so if the fights do have melee downtime the variety of buffed up range can cover the gap two BLM's would easily float over in our current state.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Dogempire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,080
    Character
    Okami Amaterasuu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Noitems View Post
    I'd much rather have the Ranged just be boosted as a whole. Dragging down melee to just meet up with the same current standards Ranged has isn't going to solve anything and if anything seems like an insult imo.

    It's more fun to have everyone playing at their best, so if the fights do have melee downtime the variety of buffed up range can cover the gap two BLM's would easily float over in our current state.
    I mean that's a fair point, it's just that at the moment I can't really think of any raid in the current tier that has significant melee downtime minus maybe Titan, and even then it depends on how you handle mechanics and consequently enable melee to have more uptime. If raids are going to stay at around the current level of difficulty of melee uptime, I don't see any point in a ranged tax unless it's only 100 or 200 dps.

    Optimizing uptime and maintaining a 35+ CPM rotation while on the move are both pretty hard, some people are just better at one than the other.
    (2)

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