So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Nhisso]

This. /end thread.

Your sig gave me cancer.

[Nhisso]

It's amazing. Ive never run in to this. In 6 years. Not once. But ok.

[Callinon]

It doesn't. DPS don't have skills to reduce aggro anymore, so enmity can point out which DPS is doing less than the other DPS.

Kind of... enmity doesn't take into account buffs from others, and it's a strict ranking rather than an actual gauge of anything other than how much enmity has been generated against this target. One tank death or one add phase and it becomes a totally useless measure of dps.

No, if you want to measure dps, measure it.

[Deithwen]

Kind of... enmity doesn't take into account buffs from others, and it's a strict ranking rather than an actual gauge of anything other than how much enmity has been generated against this target. One tank death or one add phase and it becomes a totally useless measure of dps.

No, if you want to measure dps, measure it.

Also, it only provides relative measurement at best. Like, oh nice I'm second in aggro as a DPS, I must be doing great ! Whereas in reality, both DPS do an absolutely terrible job and barely reach 50% of what DPS output they could do, it's just that one is a Sam and buffed by the other, a Dancer.

As you said, and you are completely right, if one wants to know his DPS, there is no other way than to measure it, properly and accurately, with the proper tools.

[Raven2014]

Also, it only provides relative measurement at best. Like, oh nice I'm second in aggro as a DPS, I must be doing great ! Whereas in reality, both DPS do an absolutely terrible job and barely reach 50% of what DPS output they could do, it's just that one is a Sam and buffed by the other, a Dancer.

That's just being technical. If a DPS only doing 50% of required damage and are 2nd on enmity, then that means the whole group (including the tanks and healers) are being terrible, and you would be like 50% behind of the fight which will be very noticeable. This kind of hyperbolic argument while techinically is correct, is meaningless in term of practical situation.

Is it a perfect tool? No. But a good metric for estimation in 90% of case it still is.

[SamSmoot]

Mentioning it
Mentioning that someone's damange is lower then someone
Pasting numbers


It's enough to get a GM's attention it.
Running a meter is tolerated as long as it's used for yourself only and not against someone ingame.

First, if possible, lock the log file so external programs can't read it.

Second, Provide in-game performance feedback so players will know how they're doing:

1. In group content, after you leave group, you get a report that gives your rank (4th, 5th, etc) relative to all the others. No number, just your damage or healing position.

2. When solo, give total damage for any encounter after you leave combat. If anyone else is nearby, with same level and a close item level, display their performance as well for comparision.

How can one improve if they don't know they need to?

[RoyalBeef]

How can one improve if they don't know they need to?

The people who want to improve use the corresponding tools and knowledge sources already. The rest does not want to improve, but they also want to be carried through content that requires everyone in the party to deliver, while the don't want anyone to have the ability to see that they don't deliver ^^

[BloodRubyXII]

Lucid doesn't aggro cut anymore, to my knowledge.

All this time I've been using LD whilst tanks sprint in expert rouls to wall-to-wall pulls whilst I spread dots /cry

[Callinon]

All this time I've been using LD whilst tanks sprint in expert rouls to wall-to-wall pulls whilst I spread dots /cry

That's probably fine. Unless you're some kind of damage over time beast it's unlikely the 3 ticks of dot damage will be enough to overaggro even a single tank aoe. Tanks produce just an absurd amount of aggro now even with just a single attack. I've nearly pulled aggro during a pull with a dance finisher, but those do a ton of damage especially to the first target... even then the number of times one of those has done a direct crit and actually pulled aggro during a pull I could count on one hand.

[Melichoir]

How can one improve if they don't know they need to?

Simplest way? Tighter DPS checks and Enrages. Punish players in Normal content for having poor dps. While I wont say that this is always the case, Ive seen plenty of logs where players are in 450 gear doing 3-4k dps as a monk, RDM, BLM, etc. Mind you, with some of these classes, literally spamming one skill can net you higher damage. There is very little in the way of excuses for doing such suboptimal damage when you have this gear, and frankly the devs need to push normal content harder and force players to get better and understand their classes. It would honestly help a lot in many aspects of the game. Itd be tough on certain players, and possibly cause a few to quit, but many of the complaints we hear would end up resolved by allowing for more difficult and unique design in the game