Can we please ban advertisements for selling clears from PF?

[Makeda]

Actually the PF is for whatever people want to use it for. Selling items, running dungeons, advertising FCs, or forming a lalafell army, its up to the individual player what they want to advertise in the PF. Who are you to tell other players what they can or can't advertise?

There are specific checkboxes to check when listing a party and none of them are give me money nor any of your other ideas. It’s actually pretty clear from the list if things that can be checked exactly what the PF is for.

[swiss_Momo]

in my opinion, any static recruitments or clear selling adds in the roulette tab should be reportable as spam no matter what.

Also I did read on, well, /v/ a while ago that GMs actually will accept discord screenshots now under the new ToS, given that their ID was listed in PF and can be seen on the screenshot. AND I recall that RMT is against the Discord ToS as well, so sellers can be reported there as well

[Vnolan]

They don’t have to, requiring sale listing to discuss prices in game protects both seller and buyer, not to mention the obvious RMT avoidance. If a sale goes south they can then call a GM if someone doesn’t get paid, it’s a win win, well for legitimate players that is.

That's why the rules regarding sales for real money are what they are. It's an unnecessary hassle for SE to deal with potential scams involving real money. By keeping specifics out of the game, SE can feign ignorance and look the other way.

SE has to prove this unless they want extremely bad press. Can you imagine the outrage if someone claimed "I got banned for no reason at all" and SE had no grounds to refute those claims when there are already very sour faces about people getting banned for openly talking about using third party tools which are forbidden by ToS.

Prohibitions in Final Fantasy XIV

"Square Enix reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (i) determine which activities are prohibited or violate Square Enix’s policies or terms of use, (ii) enforce such policies and terms of use, and (iii) revise this list.

Square Enix’s privacy policies may prevent Square Enix from disclosing information about investigations or disciplinary action Square Enix may have taken against players engaged in prohibited activities."

It's about want, not can't.

[SerLuke]

SE has to prove this unless they want extremely bad press. Can you imagine the outrage if someone claimed "I got banned for no reason at all" and SE had no grounds to refute those claims when there are already very sour faces about people getting banned for openly talking about using third party tools which are forbidden by ToS.

people have gotten banned for cursing, they don’t get “extremely bad press” for that nor would they for this

[Lunavi]

people have gotten banned for cursing, they don’t get “extremely bad press” for that nor would they for this

Because it IS mentioned in the rules that it is forbidden and it is followed up on consequently and people can understand why they want no excessive swearing and, most importantly in the case of this discussion, it can be proven by SE. The problem isn't forbidding people recruiting for RMT runs, but how they are supposed to actually prove they did it. This is why press does not care about the 9001 posts per week about how "unfairly" people have gotten banned for dropping F bombs and slurs left and right as it is hardly news that people get banned for breaking the rules in an MMORPG.

[SerLuke]

Because it IS mentioned in the rules that it is forbidden and it is followed up on consequently and people can understand why they want no excessive swearing and, most importantly in the case of this discussion, it can be proven by SE. The problem isn't forbidding people recruiting for RMT runs, but how they are supposed to actually prove they did it. This is why press does not care about the 9001 posts per week about how "unfairly" people have gotten banned for dropping F bombs and slurs left and right as it is hardly news that people get banned for breaking the rules in an MMORPG.

If something is changed the rules would be change, no one is saying start banning people without changing the rules.

[Lunavi]

If something is changed the rules would be change, no one is saying start banning people without changing the rules.

Did you miss the it can be proven part? I even highlighted that part. How can they succeed with either of these:

a) If they make a rule about that it is against ToS to advertise RMT activity (which there already is mind you) prove that by asking for people to speak to someone on discord about a run they want to buy had the intention to have it as an RMT run, or even just prove that it was in fact them they spoke to? Anyone can easily fake a picture of someone asking them for cash for a run on discord.

b) Make a rule that covers this exact specific thing in such a manner that they would not need proof of what activity went on on the discord linked WITHOUT causing disruption/bans for people who does nothing that any sane person would consider wrong (such as for example having an FC discord).

[SerLuke]

Did you miss the it can be proven part? I even highlighted that part. How can they succeed with either of these:

a) If they make a rule about that it is against ToS to advertise RMT activity (which there already is mind you) prove that by asking for people to speak to someone on discord about a run they want to buy had the intention to have it as an RMT run, or even just prove that it was in fact them they spoke to? Anyone can easily fake a picture of someone asking them for cash for a run on discord.

b) Make a rule that covers this exact specific thing in such a manner that they would not need proof of what activity went on on the discord linked WITHOUT causing disruption/bans for people who does nothing that any sane person would consider wrong (such as for example having an FC discord).

Again proof is not needed, they can say it’s for the protection of the buyer and seller to have the transaction discussed in game to prevent fraud.

[Jybril]

Well for those wishing to know. I decided to ask one "Ask for details in Discord" here is the result. Green is me, not sure if name shaming counts so to be safe censored it.


They blocked me as soon as I said too much. Just to make it 100% clear, I have never bought a clear nor plan too, simply asking for the sake of information.

Was this for real?
They must be out their flippin' minds selling content like that for $800.
I wonder if people really drop $100+ on clears like that.
Imagine paying the game, to pay someone else to play for you.
Wow. I mean, you can do whatever you want with your money
but I'ma be silently judging in the corner. I hate to be that one but
to those people paying these prices...

[YojimboM]

What Kaeden said is absolutely correct.

The ingame economy supports players exchanging goods and services. Buying a clear from a player is no different than buying an item from them, or paying them to overmeld your gear. It's how the gil is obtained that is the biggest point of contention, and the RMT argument is completely separate from the "buying clears" argument.

Whether that makes it fair or right that players should be allowed to be carried through content is a reasonable debate, but as far as terms of service goes, its perfectly valid, and will never be banned.

The sellers do charge real money for clears. If you notice none of the seller PFs ever state a price or even a currency. They typically only link Discord usernames, so that discussions about the sale can take place in an area outside of the game.

There have been a lot of links between people in PF and usernames in their PFs to even websites advertising RMT activities or services. Some of them from very reputable and respected raiding FCs even.

Nothing will ever be done about it unless SE forbids clear selling on PF, but until then, people will continue to use it as a form of RMT directly in everyone's face.