I thought Yoshi wants healer to focus on healing only..

[DenzelVilliers]

Yoshi never said that, "Pure Healing" and "Only Healing" are different things and concepts, Yoshi said "Pure Healing".

[CrimsonGunner]

listen,this is starting to sound more and more of a specific player doing the problem and not the whole role community.
locking skills wont solve the problem,it isn't the problem of all healers don't heal or all healers just heal its mainly people who dont care to do their jobs.
good healers keep party hp high and during downtime do other stuff to help finish it faster(dps/giving other buffs/inflicting debuffs),the main issue isn't the jobs themselves but the party members and face it you cant really change it by altering the jobs.
the jobs should be kept their unique stuff and yes we healers have lots of tools to keep downtime longer its shouldn't be a downside but a upside meaning allowing a good healer freedom to up the party chances and ending the run faster.

the judgement on those that "heal only" or "dps only" should apply only to those specific players that do it without consideration of the party members(again if healing only is in agreement with the party members it should be fine) and not apply on the roles.
healers shouldn't expect to reach certain amount of dps unless its high end tier stuff and it meaningful there but it also doesn't mean they need to drop it all for dps or be iron clad about dps cause if the situation calls it ,we healers drop it to make sure that people will survive or contribute in a different way then solo dps like buffing people to do extra damage.

the only reason healing downtime is an issue is cause SE reduce actions that can be done during those times,healers can barely contribute during those times.SCH wanted their dots cause they wanted to help more ,AST want their different card buffs back for the same reason,heck im sure even the pro main WHM would want more then just 1 dot and damage skills like buffing defenses or applying insurance buffs to make sure everything go smoothly.
the problem isn't the job or the majority of the community its only those few players that do those stuffs and ignore their party members.

of course yoshida want the healers do be more pure healing its our job to do so.he probably sees those dps only guys killing their tanks and members and he thinks its a trend of healers to focus on dps rather then support and healing their members and thinks we all forgotten what healers are all about.

[Hatstand]

I’m tired of healer DPS, there tired of healer DPS, but until things are changed at a mechanics level, they won’t change. I’ve hit the floor so many times as a tank when I pull a dungeon it makes me very sad. After I die, I see a healer with a nearly full mana bar and there still casting DPS spells...

If I could have it my way, I’d lockout healer DPS in a group of 4 or larger. Then give them more spells that focus on boosting others survivability and their DPS. If your not healing, then your doing utility. But I’d also link their utility potency to the health of the group. You can give everybody a big DPS boost but only if there above 80%.

Until that day, I guess I’ll have to keep myself alive using Clemency when I get stuck with a green DPS.

You do realise that healers are there to have fun (just like everyone else), not to serve you, right? That doesn’t mean they should be able to slack on their job any more than anyone else, and a healer who is repeatedly letting the tank die while tunnel vision-ing dps is as bad as a BLM who keeps standing in mechanics so they can keep spamming damage, or a tank who doesn’t use their cooldowns. That doesn’t mean that tanks options should be reduced to gaining aggro and mitigating damage (which would make healing them easier, since they wouldn’t be tunnel visioning on dps and would be more likely to use their cooldowns) or that dps should become unable to cast when they’re standing in a telegraph (which would encourage them to run out of it), or that healers should have their dps options removed (forcing them to overheal like hell or stand around sitting on their thumbs).

Everyone deserves to have decisions to make, and things to improve at (striving to improve is fun). That means everyone deserves the room to make mistakes and to not be that good.

Some of us like to contribute as much as possible. And that means that any gcd spent on healing that isn’t the difference between life and death is one that could have been better spent on dps (that doesn’t mean only heal when people are close to death). It’s a delicate balance, and erring on the side of healing too much is better than erring on the side of healing too little, but finding that balance is one of the most rewarding things about healing.

Even if you’re being safe, there will be times when there is no healing required, and you have a choice between dpsing or doing nothing. I’ve done a level 50 dungeon (synced) on a SCH before where my fairy heals alone were enough to keep the party alive. If I didn’t have Art of War to spam I would have contributed literally nothing except standing there and letting my fairy do the healing. Don’t ask your healer to overheal and don’t ask them to sit on their thumbs. Both are wasteful and un-fun.

As for clemency, that’s a big heal. It shouldn’t take priority over a healer’s big heals, but if the healer has already used their big heals and is being forced to gcd heal, using clemency is a dps gain for the party, especially if your healer isn’t a WHM (they have bigger gcd heals). Maybe even sooner than that, given healing is weaker this expansion, and tank health is huge, so 50% is a big heal. One of your gcds used for healing would save 2 of your healer’s, at least, and two healer nukes are more dps than a single standard tank move in your basic rotation. Using it isn’t a sign that your healer is failing. Used well, it’s a sign of consideration for your party.

If you want a heal-bot, Alphinaud and Urangier are available (although if you watch them, they dps too, so I guess you won’t find one even there).

[Hyperia]

You do realise that healers are there to have fun (just like everyone else), not to serve you, right? That doesn’t mean they should be able to slack on their job any more than anyone else, and a healer who is repeatedly letting the tank die while tunnel vision-ing dps is as bad as a BLM who keeps standing in mechanics so they can keep spamming damage, or a tank who doesn’t use their cooldowns. That doesn’t mean that tanks options should be reduced to gaining aggro and mitigating damage (which would make healing them easier, since they wouldn’t be tunnel visioning on dps and would be more likely to use their cooldowns) or that dps should become unable to cast when they’re standing in a telegraph (which would encourage them to run out of it), or that healers should have their dps options removed (forcing them to overheal like hell or stand around sitting on their thumbs).

Everyone deserves to have decisions to make, and things to improve at (striving to improve is fun). That means everyone deserves the room to make mistakes and to not be that good.

Some of us like to contribute as much as possible. And that means that any gcd spent on healing that isn’t the difference between life and death is one that could have been better spent on dps (that doesn’t mean only heal when people are close to death). It’s a delicate balance, and erring on the side of healing too much is better than erring on the side of healing too little, but finding that balance is one of the most rewarding things about healing.

Even if you’re being safe, there will be times when there is no healing required, and you have a choice between dpsing or doing nothing. I’ve done a level 50 dungeon (synced) on a SCH before where my fairy heals alone were enough to keep the party alive. If I didn’t have Art of War to spam I would have contributed literally nothing except standing there and letting my fairy do the healing. Don’t ask your healer to overheal and don’t ask them to sit on their thumbs. Both are wasteful and un-fun.

As for clemency, that’s a big heal. It shouldn’t take priority over a healer’s big heals, but if the healer has already used their big heals and is being forced to gcd heal, using clemency is a dps gain for the party, especially if your healer isn’t a WHM (they have bigger gcd heals). Maybe even sooner than that, given healing is weaker this expansion, and tank health is huge, so 50% is a big heal. One of your gcds used for healing would save 2 of your healer’s, at least, and two healer nukes are more dps than a single standard tank move in your basic rotation. Using it isn’t a sign that your healer is failing. Used well, it’s a sign of consideration for your party.

If you want a heal-bot, Alphinaud and Urangier are available (although if you watch them, they dps too, so I guess you won’t find one even there).

I just want healers to keep me alive... is that too much to ask?

[Hatstand]

I just want healers to keep me alive... is that too much to ask?

No. Did you even read what I wrote? As I explained, in my second sentence, a healer who fails to do their job is a bad player. However, reducing healers to healbots who either overheal or sit around doing the manderville is not an acceptable solution to some players being bad at their jobs. Would you play a job where, for a good 70% of a fight, there was literally nothing you could do to affect the outcome? There's already not enough healers to heal all the dps players. Making the job even more of a bore than it currently is would only make that worse.

[RowanLauron]

The entire point of healer dps, is to dps when you don't need to heal. May as well help to end a fight quicker, less healing overall needed and gives more wiggle room for dps errors if a mechanic messes up a dps rotation. There is no reason NOT to. HOWEVER, if you can't make enrage timers without healer dps, then you may need to reevaluate your damage dealers. If the game requires it, then it needs to be rebalanced. A raid kill should not REQUIRE healers to maximize dps in order to make a kill. Healer dps is a bonus to make the encounter faster, not to meet the minimum dps requirements.

[ForteNightshade]

I’m tired of healer DPS, there tired of healer DPS, but until things are changed at a mechanics level, they won’t change. I’ve hit the floor so many times as a tank when I pull a dungeon it makes me very sad. After I die, I see a healer with a nearly full mana bar and there still casting DPS spells...

If I could have it my way, I’d lockout healer DPS in a group of 4 or larger. Then give them more spells that focus on boosting others survivability and their DPS. If your not healing, then your doing utility. But I’d also link their utility potency to the health of the group. You can give everybody a big DPS boost but only if there above 80%.

Until that day, I guess I’ll have to keep myself alive using Clemency when I get stuck with a green DPS.

That utility better be absolutely amazing and not the simplistic crap they turned Astro Cards into because the moment you lock out healer DPS abilities is the moment you see a massive exodus. Healers have already overtook tanks as the most frequently in need role. This would all but guarantee you'll be waiting ages for queues. The game simply does not deal enough outgoing damage and I have very little faith they would make utility interesting enough to compensate. Yoshida does not want to make newer or inexperienced healers feel overwhelmed hence why they aren't increasing damage. Ironically, it's that refusal on his part that ensures nothing will change.

[Neophyte]

The entire point of healer dps, is to dps when you don't need to heal. May as well help to end a fight quicker, less healing overall needed and gives more wiggle room for dps errors if a mechanic messes up a dps rotation. There is no reason NOT to. HOWEVER, if you can't make enrage timers without healer dps, then you may need to reevaluate your damage dealers. If the game requires it, then it needs to be rebalanced. A raid kill should not REQUIRE healers to maximize dps in order to make a kill. Healer dps is a bonus to make the encounter faster, not to meet the minimum dps requirements.

Not for savage. /shrug

E2s has what, a 72k raid dps requirement? If I factor in both tanks with 8k (top 20%) and healers with 0, it's a solid 14k pDPS for each red one. 99 percentile 470 ilvl SMN does like 14k in E2s.

[Dogempire]

The entire point of healer dps, is to dps when you don't need to heal. May as well help to end a fight quicker, less healing overall needed and gives more wiggle room for dps errors if a mechanic messes up a dps rotation. There is no reason NOT to. HOWEVER, if you can't make enrage timers without healer dps, then you may need to reevaluate your damage dealers. If the game requires it, then it needs to be rebalanced. A raid kill should not REQUIRE healers to maximize dps in order to make a kill. Healer dps is a bonus to make the encounter faster, not to meet the minimum dps requirements.

Early clears require healer dps though.

It doesn't matter how good of a dps you are, take E4S for example, you need 74.5k dps to kill Titan assuming you get the slow instance and not the fast one.

74.5k dps divides out to:
14.5k for each dps
8.25k for each tank

At a 99th percentile only monk and black mage are able to attain numbers that high, and at the 99th percentile only Gunbreaker and Paladin are able to hit 8.25k dps, and that's WITH i470 raid gear and probably an i475 weapon. If you only have pentamelded gear there's no way in hell you're going to go much higher than 13k per dps job even on the two jobs I mentioned.

If you add healer dps into the mix and assume both healers need to do 5k dps each, the dps needed to clear becomes:
7.25k per tank
12.5k per dps
5k per healer

That lowers the dps requirements for tanks to only 60th percentile dps and only 60th-70th percentile for the top 3 dps jobs.


Also, if you still think that dps should just get good despite what I said and it still shouldn't be the healer's job to dps, let me ask you this:

Why would a group of 6 99th percentile damage dealers and tanks accept 2 healers who are too lazy to push 1 button during downtime into their group and willingly carry them through savage content?

Do you really think a group of highly motivated players who have mastered their respective classes almost to perfection would really want to have a lazy healer who can't be bothered to push a single button in their party?

[KhaDz]

I don't know if I've ever played a pure healer role in any mmo I've played where I only just heal so I'm confused where these pure healer players are coming from. With SHB, I seem to have less skills on my hotbar for all my healers (WHM didn't have a lot to begin with in the first place but wowee it's pretty scant now).

If you're dying too fast in low level dungeons as a tank, then your healer is either A) Inexperienced, B) Followed some toxic advice from somewhere, C) Doesn't care and is afk watching Netflix, D) Probably multi-boxing, E) Your DPS is taking too long to kill something because they also want to just press 1 button, F) You aren't using any of your defensive CDs, and G) It's Totorak and no one wants to be there.