Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[Taranok]

Let's take a moment to laugh about the fact that the SMN change didn't buff it at all. It isn't even a quality of life improvement.

It's a QoL adjustment, it just happens to be purely for accidentally dropping bio/miasma or it clipping unintentionally. It's not a good or bad change, per se, but it is missing the point a bit; however, I have a feeling that whatever the hell they're cooking up for SMN has to be more significant than just fixing half of the festeruin problem. With how much complaining has been done about SMN and its somewhat plummeting population, they can't be ignoring the class and are just doing some surface level adjustments that don't destructively interfere with whatever's being done in 5.1. They implied something would be happening to Trick Attack and Mudras as well, but nothing happened in 5.08, so basically we get to see what's happening in 5.1 and then go from there.

SMN didn't really need damage buffs, per se, what it needs is a restructuring of how the class plays, and not adjusting anything in 5.08 except removing a dumb aspect of ruin helps support this idea of them having something more significant cooking.

any chance that they will separate DWT and FBT into 2 action so we can have 3 burst phase back to back?

I hope not, the last thing the class needs is more buttons and more things to micromanage.

[ShariusTC]

I hope not, the last thing the class needs is more buttons and more things to micromanage.

what are you talking about? SMN's skill in this xpac can't even fill 24 of my crosshotbar slot not even with some role skill mix into it, and separate those 2 button don't even increase the skill micromanage compare with how is it now, like tell me how press DWT button 2 times in the rotaion with press DWT and FBT button 1 time in the rotaion will dramaticly increase your "things to micromanage", just make the transition between DWT > bahamut > phoenix phase more smooth without few second of waiting between bahamut and phoenix

[Taranok]

what are you talking about? SMN's skill in this xpac can't even fill 24 of my crosshotbar slot not even with some role skill mix into it, and separate those 2 button don't even increase the skill micromanage compare with how is it now, like tell me how press DWT button 2 times in the rotaion with press DWT and FBT button 1 time in the rotaion will dramaticly increase your "things to micromanage", just make the transition between DWT > bahamut > phoenix phase more smooth without few second of waiting between bahamut and phoenix

Number of abilities does not equal the amount of tasks you need to micromanage, and the class already feels horrifically overbloated.

To put it another way, ARR's SMN had fewer abilities to manage but had to micromanage vastly harder than even the current summoner does.

What you're asking for is to bloat the bars more with more redundant abilities while also adding an entire layer on a class where most people are already complaining that it has too many layers, all for some supposed increase in convenience to timing when abilities can possibly be fired.

It's not a good idea and the class should be streamlined in other directions.

[ShariusTC]

Number of abilities does not equal the amount of tasks you need to micromanage, and the class already feels horrifically overbloated.

To put it another way, ARR's SMN had fewer abilities to manage but had to micromanage vastly harder than even the current summoner does.

What you're asking for is to bloat the bars more with more redundant abilities while also adding an entire layer on a class where most people are already complaining that it has too many layers, all for some supposed increase in convenience to timing when abilities can possibly be fired.

It's not a good idea and the class should be streamlined in other directions.

yeah, sound cool, but tell me, how press DWT 2 times in a rotaion and press DWT and FBT each time have any impact on your theory of "action boat"?

[Taranok]

yeah, sound cool, but tell me, how press DWT 2 times in a rotaion and press DWT and FBT each time have any impact on your theory of "action boat"?

Because I really don't want to have 2 buttons on my bar that are non-compete and redundant with each other, and there's literally no good reason to do this.

[ShariusTC]

Because I really don't want to have 2 buttons on my bar that are non-compete and redundant with each other, and there's literally no good reason to do this.

why? if they make that 2 button don't share CD with each other, doesn't that make SMN rotaion more seamless?

[Taranok]

why? if they make that 2 button don't share CD with each other, doesn't that make SMN rotaion more seamless?

Because you're not decluttering the rotation, you're actually making it vastly denser with more periods of barren time between it. It will end up being harder to follow, stricter, and at the end of the day you're still pushing both buttons basically on cooldown if you can. You run the risk of making a 2m rotation now a 1m rotation and you're still adding buttons to a class that has way too many buttons to begin with. It serves no purpose.

I don’t think they said anything about their order of priority. That was just the order in which they asked the questions. SMN needs the most changes imo, not just buffs.

I believe this is correct, but if you look at the classes:

SAM doesn't need a rework, it just needs potency tweaks. Like BLM on launch of SB, the class largely has a fine rotation, its numbers were just not where they need to be.

NIN needs a rework, but it also needs a potency buff. It's not "just" a rework or "just" a potency buff, but it's not exactly entirely broken, the lion's share of what it needed was DPS, and then it needs a rework to its rotation mostly by strategically altering ninjutsus and altering trick attack somehow.

SMN, unlike NIN, needs a lot more reworks to individual abilities, if not outright pruning, merging, or otherwise massively altering what is fundamentally the entire classes rotation. It doesn't need to be a ground up redo, but it needs some major changes to it. These changes, like NIN's Mudra rework, will take a lot more time to implement, and since the entire rotation is likely to see significant alterations, any change to class DPS now could screw up whatever changes they have planned for 5.1, so it will naturally take more time and, as we saw, they didn't get a single actual potency increase, just a QoL to help make it so you don't need 100% perfect uptime of DoTs else you hemorrhage more DPS than is reasonable off something literally timed down to the tenth of a second (if not more tightly).

So because of this, SMN hopefully will get the most changes in 5.1, and it will be seen in a major rework (by mid-expansion standards) of the classes rotation combined with DPS increases. And I'd hope a number of classes see those DPS increases. RDM, DNC, MCH, to name a few.