Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[HeulGDarian]

OK lets take all the things asked as a rework or to be removed for reasons
Arcanist line up
Egis
Dots
Difficulty
More demis
1 animation hit summons
Lets talk about the easy one first since it encompasses 2 more.
the Arcanist line up that supposedely makes no sense to be tied to summoner and has no interaction with summoner. for this ofc ill take the 4.1 summoner because its the car before the devs carcrashed it. first of all Arcanist isnt Just the dots he is aetherflow ruin summon 1 and 2. obviously if you rework it till its unrecognisable that means jackshit but, you cant do any trance / demi without going through an aetherflow rotation. not only that the spells you get from summoner, unless they get the bane treatment, also need it. Also even if it is upgraded ruin is still a spell from the arcanist and it even gets further upgraded by Pet actions and trance. The dots Also gets upgraded and trance rewards you with a free ogcd refresh which combined with aetherflows flexibilty allows you to have an easier time refreshing the dots. The pets themselves need no explanation they dmg, they buff. they need fixing so that we dont have 2 and titan.maybe they Will at some point if theyre alowed to.
Difficulty
we're literally the mage Who has to do calculations to cast his spells and Who has to beware of his weakest points in order to achieve his highs otherwise rip demi summoning
Demi summons
We Will get more demis that was the whole point of stormblood We dont need to make the egi demis when We can fix them to make them feel as good and maybe better.
1 animation hit summons
Those aren't summons those are just attacks with the animation of a summon . if fester does 300 potency and a summon comes does 300 potency and then leaves for like 30 seconds that isn't a summon it's just a fancy attack it's the rdm sword attacks . sure you can make the argument the unbalanced pets are glorified dots even though they can at least buff you (devotion) but they aren't shallow you have to deal with them . honestly the 4.1 summons were better than they are now especially cause of little neat tricks like misaligning the garuda cooldowns so that she casts without delay contagion and you didn't need to cast ogcd for them to move.in that aspect my question is why ask for 1 strike abilities when they can put that effort into designing the next demi summon or even our first elder summon.


Story wise Summoner also makes sense . and even though the summoner quest line isn't the most intriguing compared to dark knight the back story of summoner and the connection it has with the Ascians it's the best piece of lore in the game cause it's heavily tied to the main story. off you can say i don't care about story . but if the story makes sense , the gameplay made sense and after they tried reworking it to get a bigger audience it doesn't make sense , why would you push for more nonsense to the point of reworking it unless you really dislike the job . do you want the title of summoner so much that youd rather destroy it and build it into your own image than asking for another job. if this isn't the summoner you wanted ok but this is summoner and many people like it if you don't like it Don't play it . we shouldn't be forced to get a rework every expansion just cause summoner isn't to everyones liking especially when they hit the spot already.

[Atamis]

But they never hit the spot with summoner. Its been warlock/spiritualist since its introduction and thus we get continuous threads on reworks because if you call a bird a dog people expect it to do dog things.

[HeulGDarian]

But they never hit the spot with summoner. Its been warlock/spiritualist since its introduction and thus we get continuous threads on reworks because if you call a bird a dog people expect it to do dog things.

Thats the problem. The fact that People still think that he is a warlock cause he has 2 dots called bio and miasma. i researched warlock and his skills i compared every single tree and the only comparison between them is they both have dots and warlock has a rouse at some point. they are completely different. they compare this iteration of summoner to their favourite like yuna saying Thats a True summoner look no dots without realising that not every summoner is the same and that no summoner is only summoning like yuna Who has white magic as well. Lots of Jobs have dots but since ours are called bio and miasma along with how arr did things even though they didnt expand to make dots do More stuff People Will still say he is a warlock. Youre Just using them to do More dmg with tridi being your sharpcast. this isnt a warlock system where your dots shred resistances heal you makes you infest enemies for More summons which you can then kill to heal or power up.

Wtf is even a spiritualist we dont even use ghosts to fight. Not until we summon shiva or knights of the round at least. That Just sounds made up.
It obviously didnt Hit the spot for every single man woman and Child of the planet. But for those Who arent blind to their own nostalgia and stuck to It watching It finally reach the next stage It did if you still thought in stormblood that smn wasnt a smn then you wont change your opinion now like you didnt back then. And the arguement is as invalid and hurtfull to the job as It was then. Thankfully the devs already did It once in shadowbringer and picked 1 way rather than both with monk in 5. 05 where there the community was split between going slow and fast and they picked the sensible option

[HeulGDarian]

Also i know I'm being overzealous but you guys are basically saying "you guys aren't playing or liking a summoner they should take everything that we don't like except the demi summons make it another job and make you migrate in that job so that we true summoners can finally play an actual good job" . if Yoshi p ever found a middle point that we both can enjoy id take it . but I'm not going to swap and lose my job just cause you don't feel like going to another playground . and is a great comparison because I'll say it again this isn't an argument if summoner is actually a summoner . this is you throwing a fit saying "this isn't my summoner i want my summoner".

[Nyoraii]

Thats the problem. The fact that People still think that he is a warlock cause he has 2 dots called bio and miasma. i researched warlock and his skills i compared every single tree and the only comparison between them is they both have dots and warlock has a rouse at some point. they are completely different. they compare this iteration of summoner to their favourite like yuna saying Thats a True summoner look no dots without realising that not every summoner is the same and that no summoner is only summoning like yuna Who has white magic as well. Lots of Jobs have dots but since ours are called bio and miasma along with how arr did things even though they didnt expand to make dots do More stuff People Will still say he is a warlock. Youre Just using them to do More dmg with tridi being your sharpcast. this isnt a warlock system where your dots shred resistances heal you makes you infest enemies for More summons which you can then kill to heal or power up.

Wtf is even a spiritualist we dont even use ghosts to fight. Not until we summon shiva or knights of the round at least. That Just sounds made up.
It obviously didnt Hit the spot for every single man woman and Child of the planet. But for those Who arent blind to their own nostalgia and stuck to It watching It finally reach the next stage It did if you still thought in stormblood that smn wasnt a smn then you wont change your opinion now like you didnt back then. And the arguement is as invalid and hurtfull to the job as It was then. Thankfully the devs already did It once in shadowbringer and picked 1 way rather than both with monk in 5. 05 where there the community was split between going slow and fast and they picked the sensible option

The problem isn't that SMN has dots, the problem is that the dots don't have anything to do with the job. In fact, Poison/Bio are BLM that were assigned to SMN because they wanted a dot class, that's it. If it was maybe a fire dot coming from Ifrit or from trancing to Ifrit, that would be okay, although I still think making the job identity tied to summoning dots would still be lame, they're basically forcing the class to be what it was never meant to be. And yeah, they shamelessly copied wow warlock from the beginning, having no idea what to do with this class, then in every expansion they were distancing from it, most of the new spells are summon related and burst related too. Then in this expansion I don't know why they go around and make ruinfesters and now again SMN's core identity continues being more tied to dots than to summons.

In fact, if you look at this breakdown, the damage coming from dots and nukes related to dots is more than 1.5x the damage coming from Summon related abilities, at which point I ask: Is it really a Summoner?

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/RFmv7...-done&source=6

Also worthy of mention: Ifrit does less damage than a dot (lol).

[Dyvid]

So far we have seen delete DoTs, delete pets, delete cast times, delete ruin..... Is it any wonder SE can't figure out what the community wants? It's basically delete SMN right now.

[HeulGDarian]

The problem isn't that SMN has dots, the problem is that the dots don't have anything to do with the job. In fact, Poison/Bio are BLM that were assigned to SMN because they wanted a dot class, that's it. If it was maybe a fire dot coming from Ifrit or from trancing to Ifrit, that would be okay, although I still think making the job identity tied to summoning dots would still be lame, they're basically forcing the class to be what it was never meant to be. And yeah, they shamelessly copied wow warlock from the beginning, having no idea what to do with this class, then in every expansion they were distancing from it, most of the new spells are summon related and burst related too. Then in this expansion I don't know why they go around and make ruinfesters and now again SMN's core identity continues being more tied to dots than to summons.

In fact, if you look at this breakdown, the damage coming from dots and nukes related to dots is more than 1.5x the damage coming from Summon related abilities, at which point I ask: Is it really a Summoner?

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/RFmv7...-done&source=6

Also worthy of mention: Ifrit does less damage than a dot (lol).

since you completely ignored everything. ill just answer the only point that you added and makes no sense . No just cause your dots numbers are bigger than the pet damage numbers doesn't make you a warlock especially since you compared it to just the one egi when the job pet damage also includes demi-summons and pet buffs.

[Nyoraii]

since you completely ignored everything. ill just answer the only point that you added and makes no sense . No just cause your dots numbers are bigger than the pet damage numbers doesn't make you a warlock especially since you compared it to just the one egi when the job pet damage also includes demi-summons and pet buffs.

You're the one who isn't able to read, if you sum up all of the damage that comes from summon related stuff, it amounts to about 35% of the overall damage, less than half.

The poison mage aspect of the job does about 65% of the damage, which begs the question: What is the job fantasy they're trying to sell here when everything related to SUMMONS on a SUMMONER can't even amount to half the dps of the class?

[HeulGDarian]

You're the one who isn't able to read, if you sum up all of the damage that comes from summon related stuff, it amounts to about 35% of the overall damage, less than half.

The poison mage aspect of the job does about 65% of the damage, which begs the question: What is the job fantasy they're trying to sell here when everything related to SUMMONS on a SUMMONER can't even amount to half the dps of the class?

because our numbers are currently broken. the whole reason of the thread is that.

[HeulGDarian]

You're the one who isn't able to read, if you sum up all of the damage that comes from summon related stuff, it amounts to about 35% of the overall damage, less than half.

The poison mage aspect of the job does about 65% of the damage, which begs the question: What is the job fantasy they're trying to sell here when everything related to SUMMONS on a SUMMONER can't even amount to half the dps of the class?

also did you add ruins to the dot dps cause fester and the dots compared to pet dps are both 35%. You're literally bullshiting.