About the Echo (Spoilers)

[LineageRazor]

EDIT: Jossed, at least for the two categories of souls. Clearly Banri Oda was reading this post

It seems everyone - for that matter, everything alive - on the Source is getting rejoined, not just a few select souls. So sayeth Banri Oda just today, who writes this game's lore. So its aether is increasing which increases its "potential" power (emphasis on potential - not everyone reaches level cap).

That raises the question of whether there are new souls at all...up until now, souls get dissolved in the lifestream except a few "strong" ones. Is that wrong, an in-universe mistake...? Or are we intact old souls getting our old pieces back, while new souls are getting random infusions of unrelated aether?

Not necessarily Jossed.

It depends on what, exactly is MEANT by "rejoining" for something that is not an Ancient's soul.

We know that in-game lore states that the usual cycle of life, death, and rebirth is that one's soul comes from the Lifestream, and upon death is dispersed, entirely losing its identity, and its stuff is recycled into new souls. "New souls" aren't a rare thing, like Alpha - they're the TYPICAL thing. We also know that the Ascians' souls are IMMUNE to this cycle. They exist apart from it.

Both the Lifestream and the Ancients existed prior to the Sundering, and when the time came, both the Ancients and the Lifestream (and all beings that were a part of that Lifestream) were Sundered.

So, it could well be that when a Rejoining occurs, all Ancient souls are Rejoined with the specific soul-fragment that corresponds to them. All Lifestream souls? They just get a bit more aether added. They aren't rejoined to any specific person, but a Rejoining still happens.

Basically, Oda's answer doesn't tell us much, and it certainly doesn't debunk the "Echo user = Ancient soul" theory.

[Absimiliard]

I seem to recall the game telling us that every Ascian has the Echo. With how rare the Echo normally is, I would find it strange that they all would have it if it hadn't been a part of the makeup of the original Ancients. Then again, it could be that only those with the Echo (or something like it) were eligible to be a Convocation member. There's just too much we don't know.

... Then there's that whole argument about whether or not the Echo itself is a form of tempering that comes with a few extra perks. It is alleged to protect from tempering, yet Zodiark tempered the ancients? This would mean that, amongst other possibilities, either:

A.) A sufficiently powerful primal can temper you through the Echo.
B.) The Echo really is just an extremely powerful form of tempering exclusive to Zodiark and Hydaelyn.
C.) Zodiark has a unique ability that allows it to temper you even if you have the Echo.

The Echo user = Ancient soul theory essentially requires that one of these three things be true, otherwise a portion of the Ancients being tempered (and the fact that their modern fragments are still tempered) makes little sense.

[SaberMaxwell]

"Sufficiently powerful primal can temper through Echo"

This is an interesting point and it brings T13 to mind. In it, there's a mechanic called "Suffocated Will." I'm not at liberty to look up what it did atm so I could be barking up a really weak tree, but it's very name was always interesting to me: we, the WoL, blessed with Light and having the Echo, could have our will "Suffocated" by Bahamut.

[ShinShimon]

Does anyone have a link to a video of the sky shower that appears to people when they awaken to the Echo? I don't remember anything like that from my own time playing, although it might have just been too long since I started.

[MrThinker]

Does anyone have a link to a video of the sky shower that appears to people when they awaken to the Echo? I don't remember anything like that from my own time playing, although it might have just been too long since I started.

Hmm, there quite a few videos on it for 1.0 but I dont have the time for linking it. As for 2.0, the opening cutscene that shows you arriving to your first city-state (and the star shower from before you wake up and talk to one of the merchant triplets) is in the Unending Journey under "Sidequests" for your starting city. The quests are called "Coming to Ul'dah/Gridania/Limsa Lominsa.

[Riastrad]

Does anyone have a link to a video of the sky shower that appears to people when they awaken to the Echo? I don't remember anything like that from my own time playing, although it might have just been too long since I started.

From the Ul'dah story, starts around the 8 minute mark. (my favorite starting option in 1.0, though this capture is not mine.).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsMJ8UgP3_w

Note that we had the ability to actually go back in time here. People talked to us and we in turn influenced events (however small) in both the past and (at the time) present. Ascilia (Minfilia) didn't recognize us until she recruited us into the "Path of the Twelve" organization.

[Rannie]

Which is all so strange from 1.0 due to the fact that there were times when we were in the echo in 1.0 and people would recognize us. Like Thancred did when we got into the echo that showed N guys death the goldsmith.... Also there were times F'llamin (sp?) Would recognize us also.... soooo confusing.

[Enkidoh]

I seem to recall the game telling us that every Ascian has the Echo. With how rare the Echo normally is, I would find it strange that they all would have it if it hadn't been a part of the makeup of the original Ancients. Then again, it could be that only those with the Echo (or something like it) were eligible to be a Convocation member. There's just too much we don't know.

... Then there's that whole argument about whether or not the Echo itself is a form of tempering that comes with a few extra perks. It is alleged to protect from tempering, yet Zodiark tempered the ancients? This would mean that, amongst other possibilities, either:

A.) A sufficiently powerful primal can temper you through the Echo.
B.) The Echo really is just an extremely powerful form of tempering exclusive to Zodiark and Hydaelyn.
C.) Zodiark has a unique ability that allows it to temper you even if you have the Echo.

The Echo user = Ancient soul theory essentially requires that one of these three things be true, otherwise a portion of the Ancients being tempered (and the fact that their modern fragments are still tempered) makes little sense.

Or, a fourth option is that the Ancient Ascians did not possess the Echo at first, and were only granted it seperately after summoning Zodiark and being tempered by him. This seems to be confirmed, or at least suggested at earlier in ARR's 'Through the Maelstrom' storyline when Elidibus granted the Echo to the Sahagin Elder who was already tempered to Leviathan (and lets also not forget that some of the Ascians appeared to regard the Echo with disdain, i.e. Lahabrea, well, at least at first he did, mockingly calling it an "irksome anomaly in the aether").

It's the only way to explain it really, while still keeping the 'Echo is not tempering and thus Hydaelyn does not temper" statement intact.