Let's Theorize a 5.1 Balance Patch.

[Kabooa]

My only point was that if you've relegated it to Ninki generation alone, you'd effectively be spending 8 Ninki per 15 seconds just to look cool, as Bunshin only regenerates 28-32 and would now cost 40. If it still has potency, however, you'd be spending only 8 Ninki for it, which would be beyond overpowered. As you generate 6 Ninki per strike, you'd generate 48 Ninki per Bunshin. Subtracting its effective cost, you'd generate 16 Ninki per Bunshin or roughly 64 per minute. That would mean you only get to use any skill other Ninki skill once every 75 seconds. I imagine Ninjas would quickly get so sick of it they'd want it removed outright, nuked, buried, exhumed, desecrated, spat on, and buried again. I could certainly be wrong, though.

Ninja at 80 generate 8 per strike and 4 from Bunshin. This means in a Bunshin Window Ninja would gain 72 - 84 Ninki.

Throw Dagger compared to the other job skills is more iconic, as Ninja has been the 'throwing job' in many incarnations. You can certainly buff the other job skills if you want, but here it felt like a fitting way to grant some flexibility to Ninja's kit as well as provide a weaving tool in heavy mudra segments.

Regarding Samurai, I've got no dog in this fight.

[Jonnycbad]

Should make Throwing Dagger and Piercing Talon not interrupt combos. Making them useful for uptime.

[SpeckledBurd]

Monk’s performance is a problem, but it’s also the result of having what may be the least cohesive and most poorly thought out kit in the game. To effectively nerf it you almost always have to change something else for it to stick.

That said here’s a handful of suggestions.

1. Nerf Autoattacks on Monk and change the Enhanced Fists of Fire trait into something else. This is the biggest source of Monks damage and it’s non-rotational, so if you shave the damage off here and don’t nerf weapon skills or oGCDs, it prevents abusing a different rotation. Removing Enhanced Riddle of Fire is related, as there’s good odds we’d just start using Fists of Fire instead because it’s technically the bigger buff.

2. Nerf True Strike and Buff Twin Snakes in equal measures. Making them closer in potency removes the incentive to double True Strike in a Twin Snakes if what you lose for having an unbuffed Twin Snakes evens out to the small potency gain.

3. Reduce Earth’s Reply’s duration to 15-20 seconds. Even if Monk has a disproportionate weight placed on positionals in both damage on them and the number of them. That doesn’t warrant being able to ignore them 50% of the time, however it should still have a stronger effect than true north because of the activation requirement being more than just hitting a button.

4. Bring Riddle of Fire's potency increase down to 20%. Not a whole lot to explain here.

5. Change Tornado Kick's function entirely because lost stacks are a thing of the past with the Form Shift Change. Now every time you refresh your stacks it adds a tick to a gauge that when full will let you use Tornado Kick (which should occur roughly every 60 seconds or so. It may need to have it's potency dialed down to compensate.

In my mind Monk should be tied at #3 for Damage with Machinist (Ranged Tax should be about equal to Brotherhood since it's the weakest Raid Buff) and one will pull ahead of the other depending on how often the melee are forced to disengage for Mechanics, with both of them behind Samurai and Black Mage. The nerfs to Riddle of Fire and Auto Attacks should put it around there even with Tornado Kick gaining use as something other than a .5% execution skill.

Also I think either every job should have some kind of defensive utility flex spot like Mantra or Mantra should go away entirely. It doesn't really fit with Monk's class identity as "Kinda Greedy DPS" and would almost make more sense on Ninja since it's the Support Melee. If they go the way of keeping Mantra, Ninja could get an "Enhanced Shade Shift" trait that makes it party wide for 15 yalms, Dragoon could get a 10% General Damage reduction CD with a 15 Yalm range, and Samurai could get a 10% General Damage reduction CD that's inflicted on the boss as a status (Potentially a change to Seigen or Merciful eyes which would remove them from Third Eye).

[Leidiriv]

Black Mage:
Bring Fire IV down to 290 potency
Bring Enochian down to 12% magic damage

Monk:
Greased Lightning now only increases damage by 8% per stack
Fists of Fire now only increases damage by 8%
Leaden Fist potency reduced by 20

Ninja:
I don't know enough about NIN to suggest changes without upsetting everyone.

Red Mage:
Verfire/Verstone potency increased to 290
Verthunder/Veraero potency increased to 330
Scorch now grants 10/10 mana instead of 7/7
Reprise potency increased to 300
Reprise mana cost increased to 7/7
Manafication magic damage buff increased to 10%

Dancer:
Devilment buffs increased to 30%/30%
Saber Dance potency increased to 700
Fan Dance potency increased to 250
Fan Dance II potency increased to 220
Fan Dance III potency increased to 270

[PatronasCharm]

Red Mage:
Verfire/Verstone potency increased to 290
Verthunder/Veraero potency increased to 330
Scorch now grants 10/10 mana instead of 7/7
Reprise potency increased to 300
Reprise mana cost increased to 7/7
Manafication magic damage buff increased to 10%

I’ll stand by these changes! Seems reasonable

Also am I the only person that believes having:

Scorch trigger dualcast could work out with increased momentum and a slight potency boost?

Imagine going Straight from Scorch to a Ver(strong) spell.

Idk, I still think they should Axe Reprise and add Verwater / or Verblizzard instead

[CrashofZenki]

NIN changes: Original Bunshin, and Dripping blades(or compensation for it with potency, but on every physical damage ability/weapon skill), and Mudra on client side. Nothing else needs to change.

[Noctisnine]

I am pretty sure we won't see any nerfs because we don't need any. Instead what we will get is some quality of life improvements and some buffs, meaning samurai, ninja and summoner will get all those. Maybe there will be small adjusts to warrior increasing storm's eye duration.
That's it.

[Drayos]

I am pretty sure we won't see any nerfs because we don't need any. Instead what we will get is some quality of life improvements and some buffs, meaning samurai, ninja and summoner will get all those. Maybe there will be small adjusts to warrior increasing storm's eye duration.
That's it.

so u think Monk should be stronger then BLM and SAM :P u are aware until u're nerfed. No fix will ever fix SAMs position without Making the DPS Gaps Even Worse then they currently are lol.

Monk needs Nerfs (not massive ones) but they need to go down to where DRG are where they were orginally, then SAM needs to be levelled off with BLM. then then People beneath the top 4 (Monk / BLM / DRG / SAM) Need Small potency increases to reduce the gap back to where it was instead of the 2700 Gap today. then the obvious QoLs to Summoner and Ninja to reduce the strain on the Jobs.

will we see that i dont know, but if u honestly beleive Monks gonna fly under the radar for 2 patchs (5.08 and 5.1) I think ur crazy... i think When they were levelling off with DRG was likely their intended Placement DPS Ladder wise :P right now Monk is the answer to everything :P

[Liam_Harper]

Samurai
1. Hagakure - Sen converts into Meditate stacks. Cooldown is now 60 seconds.

2. Tsubame Gaeshi - Only usable after Iaijutsu. Grants 1 meditate. 30 second cooldown. 300 potency. Removed from the GCD.

3. Shoha - Scaling changed to 100/150/250/400/600

4. Guren Senei - Cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.

It's probably just me but I'd rather not see band-aids slapped onto Shoha or other abilities modified to try to squeeze use out of it. It makes little sense to get "Meditate" stacks from consuming Sen or using Iaijutsu.

It feels like the idea was to highlight that Meditate is a good ability and force casual players to use it more, while simultaneously making the skill lackluster so casual players wouldn't be punished for not using it. It was a bad idea from the start and rather than compound that bad idea, I'd rather they rework the ability entirely.

I think a lot of us just want something satisfying to press at 80. Perhaps buff Hagakure a bit so it's mostly dps neutral but a small dps increase if utilized well. Let that be the min-max skill ability. Then leave Meditate as it was in SB and rework Shoha entirely into something straightforward and hard hitting.

It'd also be nice if Tsubame remembered the last Iaijutsu rather than being overwritten by any weaponskill, might reduce the clunk a bit, but I'm guessing people might see that as making it too easy.

[wereotter]

Ninja : Increase potency on Raiton and Hyosho Ranryu to make up for the GCD clipping issues or disable executing weaponskills to interrupt mudra inputs.

Red Mage : Increase potencies across the board, but especially on Jolt II. Maybe add damage over time to some skill (though which is hard to determine) to help with up time during movement phases. Increase duration of Embolden and give it a flat increase rather than diminishing returns over time.

Monk : decrease the DOT duration of Demolish. Reduce damage increase of True Snakes from 10% to 5%