So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[RyuSaarva]

I've been playing since 2.0ish, not 100% certain when, but I remember the release of all ARR alliance raids and I could count on one hand the number of times people actually vote abandoned LotA. Syrcus was abandoned even less.

And this was back when people had to work the towers during King Behemoth and Step into AoEs during the second boss fight of Syrcus, and jump to the side platforms to avoid the massive AoE. People were fine at the game back then, everything was doable and while WoD was incredibly frustrating upon release because some people are slow to learn, it still wasn't abandoned that often because people wanted to get these things done.

I remember having countless labyrinth vote abandons and syrcus was sometimes abandonned because the alliance could not beat the first boss.

[RoyalBeef]

I've been playing since 2.0ish, not 100% certain when, but I remember the release of all ARR alliance raids and I could count on one hand the number of times people actually vote abandoned LotA. Syrcus was abandoned even less.

And this was back when people had to work the towers during King Behemoth and Step into AoEs during the second boss fight of Syrcus, and jump to the side platforms to avoid the massive AoE. People were fine at the game back then, everything was doable and while WoD was incredibly frustrating upon release because some people are slow to learn, it still wasn't abandoned that often because people wanted to get these things done.

To be fair there are what, 9 alliance raids with 6 or so bosses each. Add in all the trial Bosses, 8 man raids etc, there is only so much a person can memorize. I end up in Roulette content I cannot remember. It's getting to the point where it's too much to expect everyone to know or remember every fight. Eventually we'll have like 100+ Bosses you can end up at randomly, that's when the "can only be done when 100% memorized" formula starts backfiring.

[Granyala]

The aftermath of instant gratification and participation medals making their way into MMOs.

And why is that?
Because sub count. So stuff is made easier and easier.

Most people are insta gratification wired. It's how our economy operates. Feel down? Buy sth for a quick "fix". Put in effort? Just pay s/o else to do it.

[Miminming]

They have dummy the should just give us a 10 minute dummy that display our number in the end ...

[Makeda]

Not hard enough to be unclearable by any sort of majority. They just required people to pay attention and actually work. Some don't want to do that.

I'm with the poster who said people lost patience and no longer wanted to try when they didn't clear the first time.

This.

Alliance raid here is NOT meant to be WoW LFR and anyone who wants it to be would be better served playing WoW...

Crystal Tower has become LFR difficulty amd in my opinion needs to be rebuffed a little to undo that...

These raids shouldn’t be savage level wipe feats but they shouldn’t also make Sastasha Normal with no green leafs look hard by comparison...

And the mentality of wipe once, even a half dozen times, and give up... that needs to leave here for another game...

[Makeda]

I think Ghostcrawler put it best: If you ask people to raise to a challenge, most will try a few times and then quit instead of actually working on improving themselves.

Good ol Ghostie thought a lot of things in his time, some of them were solid and understandable, but most of them gave the world Cataclysm.

Yep. People remember Ghostcrawler fondly because he ran WoW in it’s highest numbers but rhey forget that he took over when WoW was at it’s highest and by the time he left it was at its lowest until BfA undid all the gains of Legion...

Ghostcrawler didn’t save WoW... he toon the number 2 MMO, #1 in the west, and drove it downward.

[Makeda]

It is job dependent, but SSS is and has been overtuned. Google "are ffxiv SSS dummies overtuned," and it will return plenty of posts--some with SE admittance(source citations peppered about even).

This is because, for the DPS dummies at least, SE doesn’t factor healer DPS into boss clearing but the community does.
- The community actually expects less from the DPS than SE does, with the community expecting healers and tanks to cover the gap.
I think SE does factor tank DPS in, but before ShB factored it in without accounting for stance dancing... So while they now gave in to community expectations for tanks, sort of, they have hardened down on healers with a stronger intent towards “pure healing” leading their DPS dummies to be more demanding as they’re expecting 2 of the 8 people to be doing 0 DPS...

[Makeda]

I think it’s hard to actually ban a meter when that meter is not interacting with the game data in any way. If it just exists as an external app reading a log file.

This is why all the bans you do see inly happen when someone uses the damage tab of the chat log to harass another player.

Was having this debate with a confused set of FC mates the other day... folks that believed an external app that doesn’t tough the game files or network connection in any way was bannable... but a graphics mod to make all characters appear undressed was not a violation even though it altered actual game files...

[MPK]

This is because, for the DPS dummies at least, SE doesn’t factor healer DPS into boss clearing but the community does.
- The community actually expects less from the DPS than SE does, with the community expecting healers and tanks to cover the gap.
I think SE does factor tank DPS in, but before ShB factored it in without accounting for stance dancing... So while they now gave in to community expectations for tanks, sort of, they have hardened down on healers with a stronger intent towards “pure healing” leading their DPS dummies to be more demanding as they’re expecting 2 of the 8 people to be doing 0 DPS...

Troll post. Even with everyone doing the most optimized dps, it wouldn't be possible forgot an e4s clear with healers doing 0 DPS. 75.3k min raid dps would require every DPS to deal over 15k and have tanks do 7.5k. Trying a little too hard with the pure healing jab

[Granyala]

This.
Alliance raid here is NOT meant to be WoW LFR and anyone who wants it to be would be better served playing WoW...
Crystal Tower has become LFR difficulty amd in my opinion needs to be rebuffed a little to undo that...

While I agree that the Lv50 raids are a wee bit overnerfed, 24man IS FF-XIVs equivalent of LFR and I would set the difficulty at MoP LFR. Mechanics matter somewhat, enrages are nonexistent. You actually can wipe if you mess up but it isn't all that likely unless the bosses are new.