So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Hash_Browns]

I dunno, I think having steadily harsher and harsher enrage timers would be a good thing.
Having the first few dungeons/trials not have enrage timers, and then each dungeon boss/trial boss slowly getting stricter, and stricter - forcing players to actually do their part.

[Billythepancake]

I dunno, I think having steadily harsher and harsher enrage timers would be a good thing.
Having the first few dungeons/trials not have enrage timers, and then each dungeon boss/trial boss slowly getting stricter, and stricter - forcing players to actually do their part.

I wouldn't mind that, personally, but you have to consider the casual players who only see this as another final fantasy game, and not as an MMO. They don't have an interest in "gitting gud", they just want to experience the story and the world the game has to offer, which is fair for fans of the series. So I dont think normal content needs to be difficult, hell, when it is difficult *cough* *cough* aurum vale*cough**cough*, people complain about it being too difficult and beg for nerfs to it.

[Hash_Browns]

I wouldn't mind that, personally, but you have to consider the casual players who only see this as another final fantasy game, and not as an MMO. They don't have an interest in "gitting gud", they just want to experience the story and the world the game has to offer, which is fair for fans of the series. So I dont think normal content needs to be difficult, hell, when it is difficult *cough* *cough* aurum vale*cough**cough*, people complain about it being too difficult and beg for nerfs to it.

If putting an enrage timer on bosses makes the game too difficult then their is a problem.
Aurum Vale isn't even a difficult dungeon. None of the dungeons in the game currently have much difficulty to them.

[Billythepancake]

If putting an enrage timer on bosses makes the game too difficult then their is a problem.
Aurum Vale isn't even a difficult dungeon. None of the dungeons in the game currently have much difficulty to them.

For a lot of people, sure, I agree. Now I'd say aurum Vale isnt too bad, but I've also invested 3000 hours into this game and have progged ultimate fights as well as do savage content. But I remember my first run of bardams mettle, or Aurum Vale, shit was rough, I could barely keep up. I kept with it because I like a challenge though (clearly, right?) But not everyone does, and again, a lot of people only play this game for the story, which is completely fair, so locking the game away from them because they dont want to git gud hardly seems fair. Savage content is there for people who want to push themselves, normal content is meant to be for everyone, including the casuals.

[RoyalBeef]

"unkillable".... really?

Go join Suzaku "farm" party in PF... as soon as Colour mechanics kick in and peole have to multitask, your casual level 80 DPS player drops from 6-7k, which in't good but more than enough to clear anyway, to 2-3k instantly lol.

[Hash_Browns]

For a lot of people, sure, I agree. Now I'd say aurum Vale isnt too bad, but I've also invested 3000 hours into this game and have progged ultimate fights as well as do savage content. But I remember my first run of bardams mettle, or Aurum Vale, shit was rough, I could barely keep up. I kept with it because I like a challenge though (clearly, right?) But not everyone does, and again, a lot of people only play this game for the story, which is completely fair, so locking the game away from them because they dont want to git gud hardly seems fair. Savage content is there for people who want to push themselves, normal content is meant to be for everyone, including the casuals.

I don't think expecting a certain level of play has anything to do with the "git gud" mentality.

Players wanting to experience the story, and not get into the end-game high level content, or just play casually? That's fine. But this is a two-way street. I'm not saying we should expect EX/Savage levels here, but their needs to be a point where you have to learn about your class rather then pushing buttons, and willing.

As it stands right now, why can someone know nothing about the class they are playing, go into a dungeon, and I have to deal with that hot mess, and I'm the bad guy for not putting up with it, and kicking them?

This falls even flatter on the fact that in any game you are expected to learn, and get better in order to progress. That's a single player thing - in this situation you are holding 3/7/23 other people back because "Lol, I just wanna experience the story, calm down, I play for fun."

End game dungeons, and content in general should require actual team play, not what it is now.
As it stands - as long as the tank can self-heal (PLD, WAR), they can clear level 80 dungeon bosses without a healer.

Go join Suzaku "farm" party in PF... as soon as Colour mechanics kick in and peole have to multitask, your casual level 80 DPS player drops from 6-7k, which in't good but more than enough to clear anyway, to 2-3k instantly lol.

Sad truth being that those players probably don't know they are pushing low numbers.

[RoyalBeef]

For a lot of people, sure, I agree. Now I'd say aurum Vale isnt too bad, but I've also invested 3000 hours into this game and have progged ultimate fights as well as do savage content. But I remember my first run of bardams mettle, or Aurum Vale, shit was rough, I could barely keep up. I kept with it because I like a challenge though (clearly, right?) But not everyone does, and again, a lot of people only play this game for the story, which is completely fair, so locking the game away from them because they dont want to git gud hardly seems fair. Savage content is there for people who want to push themselves, normal content is meant to be for everyone, including the casuals.

At some point we need some more gating tho. Ilevel requirements don't work at all, because you get "welfare" tomestone gear for trivial activities that is only slightly worse than top notch raid gear, and allows you to queue up for that endgame content. You could literally do MSQ roulette every day to hit level 80 with 450/460 gear, clear Eden by tanking the floor and having the other 7 ppl do it and then hop right into savage, wondering why people yell at you for doing 2k DPS.
Of course normal story content shouldn't be gated, problem is high end stuff isn't really gated either. As soon as people are able to queue up for it,they will. Put in a solo duty with a Boss that doesn't really do much damage but has an enrage timer, so you need to hit X DPS in order to clear and unlock the next Ex/Savage or something.

[Billythepancake]

At some point we need some more gating tho. Ilevel requirements don't work at all, because you get "welfare" tomestone gear for trivial activities that is only slightly worse than top notch raid gear, and allows you to queue up for that endgame content. You could literally do MSQ roulette every day to hit level 80 with 450/460 gear, clear Eden by tanking the floor and having the other 7 ppl do it and then hop right into savage, wondering why people yell at you for doing 2k DPS.
Of course normal story content shouldn't be gated, problem is high end stuff isn't really gated either. As soon as people are able to queue up for it,they will. Put in a solo duty with a Boss that doesn't really do much damage but has an enrage timer, so you need to hit X DPS in order to clear and unlock the next Ex/Savage or something.

Some sort of requirement for savage I'm fine with, I've certainly seen people hop in there that arent ready for what savage entails, but normal content I think is fine as.

[AmeliaVerves]

I had a 23min E4 NM run the other day and at the end the DPS who did less damage than I did (on whm) wrote GG in chat. No. That was not good game, friendo.
We need enrage timers in NM 8 man raids, please. I don't want my weekly NM raids take longer than Ultimates and need more HPS...

[SturmChurro]

I don't think expecting a certain level of play has anything to do with the "git gud" mentality.

Players wanting to experience the story, and not get into the end-game high level content, or just play casually? That's fine. But this is a two-way street. I'm not saying we should expect EX/Savage levels here, but their needs to be a point where you have to learn about your class rather then pushing buttons, and willing.

As it stands right now, why can someone know nothing about the class they are playing, go into a dungeon, and I have to deal with that hot mess, and I'm the bad guy for not putting up with it, and kicking them?

This falls even flatter on the fact that in any game you are expected to learn, and get better in order to progress. That's a single player thing - in this situation you are holding 3/7/23 other people back because "Lol, I just wanna experience the story, calm down, I play for fun."

Yep, you are the equivalent of an "elitist" for expecting the bare minimum of acceptable play from another player. It's actually ridiculous. Like, is it so hard to use aoe skills? It's brain dead easy, literally. You can even stand still in most situations. Just press that button instead of that one. Lordy lordy, it's not like expecting some sort of high level play here, every time I read coddle posts or see some trash in duty finder, all I do is roll my eyes.

Apparently, people think I'm a liar when I say I don't kick, but I totally understand where people are coming from when they don't want to put up with it and kick. Other players should be taken into consideration too - the ones who don't want to, or don't have the time to wait out the timer on someone who can't grasp the basics.