Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[IntrovertAnt]

As I said in my previous posts, he knows this. He is trying to make a fool out of me, or, how kids say it these days, “expose” me by making outrageous claims, and then proceeding to challenge me by fulfilling his claims. Really old trick in the book, but I’m not going to entertain it. And on top of that, doesn’t provide a picture of his alleged rotation, which he should have done at the start if he wanted to prove me wrong and impress everyone.

Anyways, any further redundant comments he makes about the situation will just be ignored unless he posts the rotation himself (with stats, food, etc) and proves me wrong. This is supposed to be about FFXIV crafting being too easy since the addition of Prudent Touch, not a “i disagree with you so imma clown you cuhz” session lol

I’m not going to post the rotation because then you’re just going to follow it.

My point is that I think you actually like easy crafting even though you don’t admit it. I think if crafting were actually hard you would be complaining. You certainly don’t want to try my challenge for whatever reason. If you did actually try to do the challenge you would learn something about some of those points you keep blowing off that a dozens of people have been telling you.

Myself, I like the easy crafting. It feels like a reward for me after grinding the crafting classes. It also feels like a reward after painstakingly figuring out rotations on my own without looking at what other people do.

Since you won’t take the challenge, the only thing I can do is ask you outright.

Did you follow someone else’s rotation for crafts so you could be a “competitive lv 80 crafter?”

[CookiesNCreams]

I’m not going to post the rotation because then you’re just going to follow it.

My point is that I think you actually like easy crafting even though you don’t admit it. I think if crafting were actually hard you would be complaining. You certainly don’t want to try my challenge for whatever reason. If you did actually try to do the challenge you would learn something about some of those points you keep blowing off that a dozens of people have been telling you.

Myself, I like the easy crafting. It feels like a reward for me after grinding the crafting classes. It also feels like a reward after painstakingly figuring out rotations on my own without looking at what other people do.

Since you won’t take the challenge, the only thing I can do is ask you outright.

Did you follow someone else’s rotation for crafts so you could be a “competitive lv 80 crafter?”

1. You need to read my posts again. You clearly did not since you are making outrageous claims about someone who advocates equality for both audiences.

2. All you are doing is making yourself look like the provocateur, randomly challenging someone then not even posting proof that what you have in mind even works.

3. During 2.0 I had help. 3.0 - now, it was all me working on my own rotations because I didn’t really trust people.

4. Since you are repeatedly bringing up this redundant fiasco, I must ask you outright. Are you actually trying to join the discussion, or are you just trying to start problems? Put your money where your mouth is and post your alleged rotation with food, stats, etc. Then, offer me another challenge. I’d be glad to do it once I see the validity of your claim. Otherwise, you come off as confrontational and you clearly have no intention of discussing this, just trying to start stuff.

If you keep bringing this up without posting your magical rotation, I’m just going to ignore it. I support balanced crafting, not easy crafting.

[Nixxe]

The rotation doesn't matter anyway. No matter how hard the rotation is, it's a problem with a static and attainable solution, so if you throw a massive number of people at it, it will be found and disseminated in pretty short order. The internet is basically made for doing exactly that. Even if you personally gimp yourself, it doesn't even begin to address the actual problems that "easy" crafting creates, which is that it undermines the actual value of crafting. Since he plainly doesn't understand that, it's not really worth talking to him. Whatever his actual intent, he's simply going to waste your time.

[Liam_Harper]

It's heartwarming to know that at least the majority of the game's player base is enjoying this change.

Are they?

Are they having lots of fun buying leve kits to skip to 80 on a class they hate, equipping cheap gear and popping a macro they copy-pasted and have no clue how it works, so they can churn out worthless gear over and over to stuff on the mb for pennies and compete with the thousands of others doing the same thing? Because people have a strange idea of fun if that's the case.

Anyway, as I pointed it out before, the "I want to be more difficult" is just a way of saying "I want fewer people doing it".

People don't ask for difficult content to exclude others. They'd be happy seeing lots of others trying that difficult content with them. They just want something engaging.

It's like those "you just want the market to yourself so you can charge high prices" comments. I personally couldn't care less how many are on the market or which market. I'm not fussed. I'm making more gil than ever from Reuse while the new generation of endgame crafters are trying to squeeze next to nothing from Facet gear.

Easy endgame crafting hurts the casual crafter more than the big rich crafters everyone seems to dislike. Everything is worthless unless you have good market knowledge. Heck, you could sell white Gazelle and Twinsilk sets in SB for more than Facet is worth now.

I’m not going to post the rotation because then you’re just going to follow it.

Why not? You "won", we couldn't do it. Post your magic macro to prove it and seal that victory.

[PlsNoBully]

Are they?

Are they having lots of fun buying leve kits to skip to 80 on a class they hate, equipping cheap gear and popping a macro they copy-pasted and have no clue how it works, so they can churn out worthless gear over and over to stuff on the mb for pennies and compete with the thousands of others doing the same thing? Because people have a strange idea of fun if that's the case.

An overwhelming majority of my friends who craft casually are happy over the current state of crafting strictly because it makes the end goal of being self-sufficient entirely within a reasonable and cheap grasp. These types of people aren't competing with you on the market in the literal sense, your regular consumer base (them) are just no longer needing your services because they can make their own gear, make their own consumables, make their own glam, etc. and if they need money, they can very easily obtain it with the same degree of success as any other equally resourced player. These are not the type of people that you will ever see on the market board if they can help it and play with the same self-sufficiency as most JP players do.

There is nothing wrong with casual players being able to easily access these types of things, be self-sufficient and is a logical consequence of communities simply sharing information to the general public. The issue, at least as far as I can tell OP believes there is, is that there is no greater reward for going the extra mile with crafting and instead simply electing to go for the cheapest, laziest set up that achieves a 0-100 rotation on 70 durability crafts is more fiscally efficient for an average joe.

[Cleanse]

Thing is: crafting was always easy. The only "difficulty" part around crafting was over-melding due to the heavy RNG nature. Also, Savage already was "nerfed" at SB and is more accessible than ever. IGets easier over time too thanks to gear progression. People not doing savage is because they don't want to do it.

Anyway, as I pointed it out before, the "I want to be more difficult" is just a way of saying "I want fewer people doing it".

This is a great summary of how the game has always been. Most MMO players have a lot of nostalgia around their initial experience.

Modern MMOs try and level the playing field as much as possible upon a new expansion release in order to attract and retain new players. The veteran players have experience (the biggest factor re this topic of feeling bored/not challenged) and a slight ('big' in the case of pentamelded crafters/gatherers) advantage gear-wise.

Once you have a proper melded set, crafting is and has always been only gated by your time and resourcefulness.

[Blokeymon]

I absolutely disagree with that. That is not true, whatsoever. As someone who has crafted during those patches, using macros for end game crafts will almost guarantee that you NQ it. You had to manual craft it, and think carefully about the choices you make.

With prudent Touch and 5.0 actions, it makes it to where you don’t need to manually think about anything.

This has likely already been said, but I'm fairly sure I still have screenshots of my level 50 macros for crafting back in ARR, when I was sharing them with my FC people.

Sure, they required all crafters at 50, some required pentamelded sets, and some of them required HQ materials to get that initial boost, but I've had macros for crafting at every step of the game since well before HW arrived.

So... sorry, but you're absolutely wrong.

[CookiesNCreams]

This has likely already been said, but I'm fairly sure I still have screenshots of my level 50 macros for crafting back in ARR, when I was sharing them with my FC people.

Sure, they required all crafters at 50, some required pentamelded sets, and some of them required HQ materials to get that initial boost, but I've had macros for crafting at every step of the game since well before HW arrived.

So... sorry, but you're absolutely wrong.

I misunderstood what was being said then. Yes, technically, you could macro many crafts. But when it came to optimal rotations that had a lower chance of HQ’ing, macro’ing things was absolutely not a good idea. Was better (and faster) to just do it manually. I am applying this to only end game crafts back in 3.x. Sorry about that.

Now, if someone is trying to argue to me that back in 3.x, doing rotations manually on end game crafts was worse than doing it through a macro, that is just wrong. But now in 4.0 - 5.0, its optimal to just do it as a macro. It HQs 100% either way. Back then, macros yielded a higher chance of NQ’ing because most people did not utilize tricks of the trade.

[DrWho2010]

Rath's Rotation with all those stacks of flawless synth and then hoping hasty touch didn't fail.... yeah those were fun times. lets not ever go back to that.

[Kabooa]

Are they?

People don't ask for difficult content to exclude others. They'd be happy seeing lots of others trying that difficult content with them. They just want something engaging.

Why not? You "won", we couldn't do it. Post your magic macro to prove it and seal that victory.

1. Yes. Because leveling crafters sucks once the novelty of the shallow craft system wears off.

2. The only generalization that can be made is 'people ask for harder crafting'. People have certainly asked for it with exclusion being the motivation.

3. He literally just used HQ materials, guys. This isn't difficult. It wasn't a restriction.