Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Liam_Harper]

It's heartwarming to know that at least the majority of the game's player base is enjoying this change.

Are they?

Are they having lots of fun buying leve kits to skip to 80 on a class they hate, equipping cheap gear and popping a macro they copy-pasted and have no clue how it works, so they can churn out worthless gear over and over to stuff on the mb for pennies and compete with the thousands of others doing the same thing? Because people have a strange idea of fun if that's the case.

Anyway, as I pointed it out before, the "I want to be more difficult" is just a way of saying "I want fewer people doing it".

People don't ask for difficult content to exclude others. They'd be happy seeing lots of others trying that difficult content with them. They just want something engaging.

It's like those "you just want the market to yourself so you can charge high prices" comments. I personally couldn't care less how many are on the market or which market. I'm not fussed. I'm making more gil than ever from Reuse while the new generation of endgame crafters are trying to squeeze next to nothing from Facet gear.

Easy endgame crafting hurts the casual crafter more than the big rich crafters everyone seems to dislike. Everything is worthless unless you have good market knowledge. Heck, you could sell white Gazelle and Twinsilk sets in SB for more than Facet is worth now.

I’m not going to post the rotation because then you’re just going to follow it.

Why not? You "won", we couldn't do it. Post your magic macro to prove it and seal that victory.

[PlsNoBully]

Are they?

Are they having lots of fun buying leve kits to skip to 80 on a class they hate, equipping cheap gear and popping a macro they copy-pasted and have no clue how it works, so they can churn out worthless gear over and over to stuff on the mb for pennies and compete with the thousands of others doing the same thing? Because people have a strange idea of fun if that's the case.

An overwhelming majority of my friends who craft casually are happy over the current state of crafting strictly because it makes the end goal of being self-sufficient entirely within a reasonable and cheap grasp. These types of people aren't competing with you on the market in the literal sense, your regular consumer base (them) are just no longer needing your services because they can make their own gear, make their own consumables, make their own glam, etc. and if they need money, they can very easily obtain it with the same degree of success as any other equally resourced player. These are not the type of people that you will ever see on the market board if they can help it and play with the same self-sufficiency as most JP players do.

There is nothing wrong with casual players being able to easily access these types of things, be self-sufficient and is a logical consequence of communities simply sharing information to the general public. The issue, at least as far as I can tell OP believes there is, is that there is no greater reward for going the extra mile with crafting and instead simply electing to go for the cheapest, laziest set up that achieves a 0-100 rotation on 70 durability crafts is more fiscally efficient for an average joe.

[Kabooa]

Are they?

People don't ask for difficult content to exclude others. They'd be happy seeing lots of others trying that difficult content with them. They just want something engaging.

Why not? You "won", we couldn't do it. Post your magic macro to prove it and seal that victory.

1. Yes. Because leveling crafters sucks once the novelty of the shallow craft system wears off.

2. The only generalization that can be made is 'people ask for harder crafting'. People have certainly asked for it with exclusion being the motivation.

3. He literally just used HQ materials, guys. This isn't difficult. It wasn't a restriction.

[CookiesNCreams]

1. Yes. Because leveling crafters sucks once the novelty of the shallow craft system wears off.

2. The only generalization that can be made is 'people ask for harder crafting'. People have certainly asked for it with exclusion being the motivation.

3. He literally just used HQ materials, guys. This isn't difficult. It wasn't a restriction.

In your opinion, why do you believe easy crafting should stay?

[DPZ2]

In your opinion, why do you believe easy crafting should stay?

So, you are not really looking for harder content, just a way to make more difficult for everyone else?

That is the implication of your question.

[CookiesNCreams]

So, you are not really looking for harder content, just a way to make more difficult for everyone else?

That is the implication of your question.

Um, are you serious right now? I literally only asked her a question, I meant nothing bad by it, and she actually makes very good points in her posts unlike your post. Please take your obvious disdain towards hardcore and/or hard working crafters somewhere else and have an actual discussion, Kay?

[DPZ2]

Um, are you serious right now? I literally only asked her a question, I meant nothing bad by it, and she actually makes very good points in her posts unlike your post. Please take your obvious disdain towards hardcore and/or hard working crafters somewhere else and have an actual discussion, Kay?

"In your opinion, why do you believe easy crafting should stay?"

OK, turn it around then. In your opinion why do you believe easy [easier] crafting should not stay? Your original premise, and the title for this whole thread, has been "think about casual AND hardcore crafters", although your arguments have been only about how to make it more difficult for casual crafters.

[CookiesNCreams]

"In your opinion, why do you believe easy crafting should stay?"

OK, turn it around then. In your opinion why do you believe easy [easier] crafting should not stay? Your original premise, and the title for this whole thread, has been "think about casual AND hardcore crafters", although your arguments have been only about how to make it more difficult for casual crafters.

Well, I believe easy crafting should stay. I just want easy crafting to be mixed in with hard crafting, just not on the same level /standards. For example, for any recipe (including glam) that is UNDER level 80, the rotations should be easier, it’ll help players who are leveling crafters and trying to get exp. It’ll even help people selling glam prisms and other items.

As for level 80 end game recipes? Absolutely not. That should be difficult. Why? Because as the name implies, “end game”, usually means that you have reached end game content, which, is supposed to be hard or prove to be some sort of challenge to players who made it all the way to lvl80. Most online games I’ve came across, use the term “end game” as a way to prove what you know and put your skills to the test. However, in FFXIV, they seem to have that backwards.

Not only that, but every patch ever since 4.0, they seem to add more easy mechanics that make crafting even more of a children’s mini game rather than an intellectual thing. (Yes I know, 2.x and 3.x’s rng was not that intellectual, but using tricks of the trade to better your chances during a craft sounds intellectual to me, rather than spamming Delicate synthesis and Prudent Touch.)

Reward players who are taking the time to level from 1 - 79 on every crafter with easy recipes.
Reward players who have spent the gil, time, and hours to meld and obtain everything including books at lvl 80 .... challenges.

[Kabooa]

In your opinion, why do you believe easy crafting should stay?

In my opinion, it was never difficult to begin with. Much of the difficulty before is better described as tedium or gate keeping.

The novelty of the craft system wore out quite quickly for me, suffice to say I've played other games with far more engaging craft systems and economies. FF14 will forever just be WoW with extra steps.

As for why it should stay - I got to be there at 2.0 as a battleclass only. The strangehold crafting had on the market at the time was something that took them until the second half of Heavensward to really tune, between better system gil generation, and more equitable Combat <-> Crafter interaction.

I'm not even sure if right now we aren't in a stable situation due to the mass availability of raw materials. If there's an abundance of crafter bots as Kage says, there has to be at least as many if not more gatherer bots fueling the game right now. Take them out of the equation and I wonder how things would shake out.