Dear Paladins

[Fluffernuff]

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what im mostly referring to was statements he made before stormblood came out, and how he said point blank that healer dps wasnt factored into the fight design. or something along those lines. also, i dont remember/have a source for this but "pure healer" wasnt so much lost in translation so much as we as the NA community slapped a completely different notion of what that means than what yoshi did.

also, i dont think its fair to say that SCH *needed* ED to clear savage. it rounds out their kit, and not having an aetherflow dump on damage was very awkward. but if you listen to someone like momo, it wasnt the absolute end of the world.

But that really just brings it back to what i was saying; regardless of if they intend for healers to DPS or not doesnt really matter, because whats we actually get, the actual design pushes it regardless. it's kind of the nature of the beast we get. ff14 just isnt constantly pressuring healing often enough- its innately spikey on both the tank and healer ends. leaving enough downtime for dps to begin with.

not to mention enrage timers. but im chocking that up to NA again simply because.... "if we dont pass enrage, it clearly wasnt ME, how dare you. I'M a MNK, i couldnt possibly be the problem. No, the AST needs to pick up the pace." we also have the unfortunate habit of excluding roles entirely based on this. im not sure EU or JP is just auto-locking DNC, NIN, or RDM out of things, and i highly doubt they dont have those jobs clearing every week

[phantomr23]

also, i dont think its fair to say that SCH *needed* ED to clear savage. it rounds out their kit, and not having an aetherflow dump on damage was very awkward. but if you listen to someone like momo, it wasnt the absolute end of the world.

Yeah, that was bad comma usage and phrasing on my part - they were meant to be separate thoughts. So "healer DPS is basically required for early Savage kills unless everyone else is pulling basically 99th percentile" and "they very quickly returned Energy Drain, one of the core parts of Scholar's damage kit.

As for the rest though, we honestly agree on most levels. It's inarguable that as the game is right now healer DPS is not just a necessity but something that is actively encouraged. Only difference is I think it's intentional, regardless of a few quotes by Yoshi-P, and you probably don't. Either way yeah, end result is that FFXIV's design does not encourage pure healing.

(Out of interest, does anybody know if there has ever been a tier of Savage in which, with the healers doing 0 DPS, a group of tanks and DPS with average damage could have cleared all the fights in the first week? I could be wrong, but I don't think one has ever existed.)

[Fluffernuff]

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yeah, its not like im simply disagreeing for the sake of it. regardless of if we think its intentional or not, the design behind it- what we actually have- encourages it either way. Not the end of the world, really.

as for your question, the DPS meta didnt even really exist until gordias bent the playerbase over it's knee and gave it a good, raw paddlin'. Even then, it was in it's very baby form. we didnt really see the lengths that we see now until alexander/deltascape. before then, in the good old days of coil and the arr extremes, healer DPS was pretty low in general. i wasnt around back then, so i dont know if it was actually 0, but from what i've watched/heard/read... it's low at best. It was a different time

[Seku]

yeah, its not like im simply disagreeing for the sake of it. regardless of if we think its intentional or not, the design behind it- what we actually have- encourages it either way. Not the end of the world, really.

as for your question, the DPS meta didnt even really exist until gordias bent the playerbase over it's knee and gave it a good, raw paddlin'. Even then, it was in it's very baby form. we didnt really see the lengths that we see now until alexander/deltascape. before then, in the good old days of coil and the arr extremes, healer DPS was pretty low in general. i wasnt around back then, so i dont know if it was actually 0, but from what i've watched/heard/read... it's low at best. It was a different time

Nah, it's been around since ARR. Example being that Holy use to be 240 Potency to all foes with it's stun and ect.

Many didn't go for it right away because it wasn't well known or explored, WAR was just coming back up after it had fallen flat on it's face from the initial relaunch. But as more people started catching on, people started doing it more and more