Is this actually worth it?Maybe it's only while levelling, but dungeon pulls on WAR just don't flow well... AoE combo (which requires a target and has a directional component) to get aggro, single-target combo for 3 GCDs to get Storm's Eye, finally back to AoE combo / special AoE; and since Storm's Eye only lasts up to 30s it has usually fallen off before the next pack.
Is the DPS loss from having three single target attacks outweighed by the buff that Storms Eye grants?
Instead of spamming Dark Arts we instead now just spam Edge/Flood :/Maybe it's only while levelling, but dungeon pulls on WAR just don't flow well... AoE combo (which requires a target and has a directional component) to get aggro, single-target combo for 3 GCDs to get Storm's Eye, finally back to AoE combo / special AoE; and since Storm's Eye only lasts up to 30s it usually falls off before the next pack.
DRK, PLD and GNB are all infinitely smoother in comparison with circular AoEs (that don't require a target), an oGCD AoE (very useful for staggered packs), and freely applicable damage buffs.
Edit:
Not that I want WAR to be yet another PLD clone; however, I do draw a distinction between 'unique' abilities that truly separate classes and abilities that are just worse versions of the 'standard' (with nothing to compensate).
For example:
- Way back when PLD had only Flash (and Circle of Scorn), Overpower was still finicky to use but at least it had the advantage of doing damage... now Overpower is just a flat out worse version of the AoE that all the other Tanks have (even in potency compared to DRK and GNB).
- Similarly for Onslaught, which technically has the advantage of longer range and being available more often, but at 20 gauge cost, a 10s hard cooldown, and half the potency; ouch!
- Storm's Eye is a bit different (being 100% uptime and having no resource cost), but there is no denying that it is more annoying to apply and maintain than Darkside.
- And it is not just WAR; PLD Divine Veil for example is long past due to lose its requirement of needing a heal to proc it (since it is no longer the only Tank party mitigation ability).
In comparison to 4.X DRK, yes, but I wasn't really a fan of the Dark Arts spam style of 4.X DRK (though I know many were, so I would not begrudge its return) ... in either case it's faster than WAR.
At least Edge / Shadow do damage directly instead of just buffing potencies, which IMO has a much better gameplay feel (i.e. you can see the results without staring at numbers / a parser). Maybe I missed some hidden depth in 4.X DRK (as I said I didn't really like it) but to me 4.X Dark Arts didn't feel like a 'bonus', or a 'reward', or even a well-designed class mechanic, it just felt like a bunch of busy work, a button you had to press so your abilities would do their 'real' damage.
Which is not to say 5.X DRK is a shining example of class design, it definitely has its issues, and feels like it is missing a few things, but IMO it's s solid base on which a solid class can be built (hopefully before 6.0).
Just my opinion but dark arts was much more versatile and interesting skills that edge/flood, they could design many mechanics around his uses that could be a lot of fun but instead they give us a oGCD that currently is not better that spam DA like in SB.
the most important thing about dark arts it's that was a big contributor of DRK identity and the problem was exclusively on the rate of use in SB not his dessing.
Would "taking 3 GCDs of waste per 30 seconds to be capable to the same AoE output as other jobs" be any more obvious to those playing Warrior when talking about Storm's Eye and AoE? When it's something experienced by all players of the job and is not a circumventable conflict fixed by improved play (e.g. only by deciding not to use SE at all in some cases) it's usually pretty clear what one means by "clunky". Otherwise, virtually any singular description is equally at fault -- anti-synergetic, disconnected, incohesive, lackluster, unrewarding, take your pick...Because 'clunky' is the new hip term to describe anything people dont like for any reason and not have to explain why X thing is bad. Much like how everything and its dog was 'toxic' last year. The term is so generalized now that it doesnt really mean anything except 'i dont like X'. Clunky has become just a catchall scapegoat to avoid giving a real reason as to why something is bad. Its really stupid. Not everything in the game is 'clunky' just because you dont like it.
Saying a job is clunky is indeed uselessly vague, but it's not hard to imagine how Storm's Eye (especially in the context of AoE or delaying burst by up to a GCD more than PLD and 3 GCDs more than DRK and GNB), Overpower (target required, unlike all other tank AoE GCDs), or Onslaught (gauge cost, even if deserved, paired with Infuriate not being usable outside of combat) would be "clunky" to another player if one has merely played WAR and 2-3 of the other tanks this expansion.
I don't think it leaves much to the imagination when one complains that Dark Arts spam felt clunky, especially in the context of other oGCDs (thus forcing double-weaving), and relatively unimpactful (a mere 140 potency per use vs. our current 500). The confusion only occurs when others then tie the comment meant for frequent or consecutive use of the skill ("Dark Arts spam") with the mechanic itself ("Dark Arts"), etc.
If you have so many ideas and they're intelligent and well though out ideas then I am sure ff14's dev team would appreciate your help in improving the quality and uniqueness of the tank classes by posting them.
We had 3 pretty unique tank jobs in the first tier of SB:
WAR had it's slow, careful build-up of beast gauge, unleashed in one of the two burst windows, both with slightly different skill usage and power.
People complained it was too hard and that you could lose out on dps if you messed up your gauge, so they dumbed it down to auto-crit FC spam in 4.2.
DRK had significantly faster-paced gameplay, with tons of weaving and constant management of two gauges which interacted with each other.
People complained the weaving was too much and that burst and resource management should be more streamlined, so they gutted it all in 5.0.
PLD was the simplest of tanks, but stood apart with it's somewhat interesting gimmick of a casting window and Shield Swipe fishing even as OT.
People complained that moving between casts was too hard and clunky, so they made spells within the Requiscat window instant and completely indistinguishable from weapon skills in 5.0.
The early SB tanks weren't perfect, they had plenty of kinks to adjust, but they were distinct and those issues could've been fixed with small changes. WAR got near perfect by 4.1, but people kept complaining that it's "not enough damage for the effort", so we got 4.2. DRK's biggest issues got fixed in 4.4 and we could've gotten further small adjustments in 5.0 through addition of new skills, but people kept crying that it needs a complete revamp, so we got Dark Warrior in SHB.
not only the complains but the policy of remove/extra baby rework of SE on personal tank mechanics, seems like SE lately doesn't like to ajust properly a nice mechanic but if they recive a complaing about something on tanks they just take it to te extreme side for some reason instead to adap it better and thats how we end here, at this rate next expansion should be called clone wars.
Last edited by shao32; 08-22-2019 at 06:35 AM. Reason: grammar correction sorry ^^
While i disagree, thanks for actually using words to explain your issue instead of just claiming 'clunky' as an argument.Would "taking 3 GCDs of waste per 30 seconds to be capable to the same AoE output as other jobs" be any more obvious to those playing Warrior when talking about Storm's Eye and AoE? When it's something experienced by all players of the job and is not a circumventable conflict fixed by improved play (e.g. only by deciding not to use SE at all in some cases) it's usually pretty clear what one means by "clunky". Otherwise, virtually any singular description is equally at fault -- anti-synergetic, disconnected, incohesive, lackluster, unrewarding, take your pick...
Saying a job is clunky is indeed uselessly vague, but it's not hard to imagine how Storm's Eye (especially in the context of AoE or delaying burst by up to a GCD more than PLD and 3 GCDs more than DRK and GNB), Overpower (target required, unlike all other tank AoE GCDs), or Onslaught (gauge cost, even if deserved, paired with Infuriate not being usable outside of combat) would be "clunky" to another player if one has merely played WAR and 2-3 of the other tanks this expansion.
I don't think it leaves much to the imagination when one complains that Dark Arts spam felt clunky, especially in the context of other oGCDs (thus forcing double-weaving), and relatively unimpactful (a mere 140 potency per use vs. our current 500). The confusion only occurs when others then tie the comment meant for frequent or consecutive use of the skill ("Dark Arts spam") with the mechanic itself ("Dark Arts"), etc.
War has had the same 3gcd eye ramp up since 2.0. I cannot recall a single thread about this in 5 years until xeno made a video on it a month or so ago. So no, i dont just accept that putting up eye is suddenly 'clunky' when the competing tanks had roughly the same aoe ramp up forever. Hit fof. Darkside used to be pernanently on. If anything it is better than ever because we can extend eye via aoe combos for the 1st time ever. If anything war got significantly less 'clunky' this expac for aoe when were talking about eye.
But according to this forum: onslaught is clunky. War is clunky. Eye is clunky. Drk is clunky. Tbn is clunky. Nascent flash is clunky. Etc. People just need to explain their thought instead of hiding behind vague bs. If you have an issue, explain it.
That might be due to people on the forums thinking that not hitting DA on everything is a "Punishment" and not a "Bonus".At least Edge / Shadow do damage directly instead of just buffing potencies, which IMO has a much better gameplay feel (i.e. you can see the results without staring at numbers / a parser). Maybe I missed some hidden depth in 4.X DRK (as I said I didn't really like it) but to me 4.X Dark Arts didn't feel like a 'bonus', or a 'reward', or even a well-designed class mechanic, it just felt like a bunch of busy work, a button you had to press so your abilities would do their 'real' damage.
Which is not to say 5.X DRK is a shining example of class design, it definitely has its issues, and feels like it is missing a few things, but IMO it's s solid base on which a solid class can be built (hopefully before 6.0).
Which, given how if you use TBN and it doesn't break is a "Punish" now, I can't say I'm surprised.
See I agree with this. DA had a use or two in Heavensward, and got more usage in Stormblood. To see it ripped out is just disappointing.Just my opinion but dark arts was much more versatile and interesting skills that edge/flood, they could design many mechanics around his uses that could be a lot of fun but instead they give us a oGCD that currently is not better that spam DA like in SB.
the most important thing about dark arts it's that was a big contributor of DRK identity and the problem was exclusively on the rate of use in SB not his dessing.
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