There's not much unique-ness when it comes to tank jobs, are there?

[Acidblood]

DRK is just a discount WAR now and that makes me sad.

I prefer DRK over WAR; DRK at least flows well, WAR is clunky (Storm's Eye, Overpower, Onslaught) and slow (relatively few oGCDs).

[RadicalPesto]

Why do people keep saying Storm's Eye is clunky? It might be a bit annoying to get the buff in AoE situations, but there's no clunk about "having to use a different combo ender than your basic one occasionally". Is this about how you can't just immediately double inner chaos into inner release in the opener? Because even DRK wants to use a Souleater combo during its opener before going into Delirium (to have enough Blood for Living Shadow).

[shao32]

WAR didn't change much this expansion if we compared the job to the non tank stance meta gameplay of course, i personally find WAR more fun bcs his skills sinergy well with other skills and combine effects it's fun, his downtime is the same as ever idk why is now a problem, i gues bcs now DRK mimic his gameplay and press a few more edge in the downtime? WAR isn't clunky WAR is tactical you need to know how to use his tools in the right moment to midmaxing, is not brainless spam/fire and forgeth like DRK but i agree the job is still to slow at least for me but it has been like that always.

[EpicOverlord85]

I feel like WAR got discounted and DRK just was made better personally. At least DRK can feel decent to play outside of delerium. WAR?
End my life I'm so bored when IR is on cooldown. My gosh it feels like the worst job ever designed.

I’m not sure how DRK fairs any better. When Delirium is on cooldown we literally just spam Soul Eater. We also sometimes get to hit Edge/Flood. It’s slow, it’s repetitive, and it’s mind numbingly easy. Man I miss blood weapon haste.

[EpicOverlord85]

I prefer DRK over WAR; DRK at least flows well, WAR is clunky (Storm's Eye, Overpower, Onslaught) and slow (relatively few oGCDs).

DRK is slow as hell now. Our attack speed, our MP gain, it’s all moving at a snails pace. Also I think it’s kinda hard to screw up 1-2-3 then 4 for 10 seconds ever 80 seconds.

[Izsha]

Why do people keep saying Storm's Eye is clunky? It might be a bit annoying to get the buff in AoE situations, but there's no clunk about "having to use a different combo ender than your basic one occasionally". Is this about how you can't just immediately double inner chaos into inner release in the opener? Because even DRK wants to use a Souleater combo during its opener before going into Delirium (to have enough Blood for Living Shadow).

Because 'clunky' is the new hip term to describe anything people dont like for any reason and not have to explain why X thing is bad. Much like how everything and its dog was 'toxic' last year. The term is so generalized now that it doesnt really mean anything except 'i dont like X'. Clunky has become just a catchall scapegoat to avoid giving a real reason as to why something is bad. Its really stupid. Not everything in the game is 'clunky' just because you dont like it.

[TouchandFeel]

snip

One might even say the faulty over-generalized usage of "clunky" is in itself ... clunky.

[Seku]

Why? Because it uses a greatsword? I'm sorry to tell you this but big swords have been a Dark Knight thing since ever. It certainly doesn't absorb magic.

Uh...actually that's **100 percent** what rune fencer and celes does, reduce and asorb magic. What does Dark knight do in FF14?

It's not ahead in damage...

It doesn't enfeeble.....

It doesn't use it's HP to enhance attacks...

It does specalize in lowering magical damage.

You know what / who else specializes in reducing magical damage? Rune Fencer and Celes.

Also for the white magic thing in FF3 on the NES version that, even then they had enfeebles. Later to be replaced by the darkness command in the re-work and never to see use white magic in it's base class again in any iteration thus why I pointed out **almost** every version of dark Knight. At this point you're grasping for straws. Please come back with a good counter argument and proof that in most of it's appearance dark knight didn't enfeeble or give up it's Hp to damage enemies. Until then, have fun sitting.

Frey doesn't kill indiscriminately. The core debate of the first set of quests culminating in Our Answer is about idealism vs. pragmatism. In Frey's own words from a later questline:

Serve… Save… Slave… Slay… I’ve sins aplenty, aye, but regrets? Not so much. And if she wouldn’t listen to me, the embodiment of good sense and pragmatism, then what hope could you possibly have. A house divided cannot stand, you know. This childish rebellion ends now.

It's quite easy for the Warrior of Light to just do tasks because they are asked of him/her. There are plenty of people, as in the story of the merchant, who are willing to use the Warrior of Light as a tool for their personal benefit, but are just as willing to turn on them when it's convenient. "Our Weapon of Light." The same is true of 'Our Answer'.

While your courageous new friends distract the dross, you will seek out and slay the leader. What a brilliant plan! Nothing like the countless other times we slew someone else's enemies.

And here we come to the crux of Fray's views on the subject:

Your affinity with your darkside grows stronger by the day. And yet...there is a hesitation. Listen to me. You have performed great deeds and saved countless people. You are a hero to the realm... But you are no dark knight. A dark knight accepts that he cannot save everyone─that sometimes, he is fortunate just to save himself. Sacrifice, is to renounce that which binds you. To recognize that which matters─and forsake all that does not. At the very least, you must realize that you cannot continue to carry all these burdens... Unless you wish to die a slave.

Those knights are not innocent. After using you for their own benefit, they then want you to politely accompany them back for questioning on an issue of heresy. Yeah, right. This is our answer. See how quickly they change their minds after that.

The entire point of the Dark Knight questline is that your player character is more than a quest completion tool. They're a person, with a voice, with a story waiting to be told.

A chorus of voices cries out for a hero, and he comes.
He smiles. He nods. And he remains silent...
But he too has a voice...
I will be heard...

Fray: Listen to my voice. Listen to your heartbeat. Listen for the other...

Fray is our voice. It's easy to do what's asked of you. What makes a Dark Knight different is a willingness to ask why, and act on behalf of their inner desires. To quote Sidurgu:

To walk the path is to suffer. To sacrifice. Justice demands no less. But we must never lose sight of why we chose to walk it.

A Dark Knight acts not because they are asked to. It's because they choose to.

The knights were innocent, as Frey (yourself) was acting upon previous experiences, that came from different people. Having slayed Knights that had nothing (or at least not shown) to have any part of the ordeal. You literately walk into town with your weapon still as the guard that had came to fetched you said "you may be asked to surrender your weapon" , yet they did not take it. They also said "Surely there is no need for concern. I mean, “conversing with a corpse”? What fools do they take us for", showing doubt in what slander was being spoken about the Warrior of Light and taking their side. But instead of thinking of the more positive side of things, as well as common sense since he had previously worked to expose a heretic among their ranks, Fray (you) decided to slay guards within Whitebrim before you even get to town.

This shows that as even a little bit of doubt is enough to set Frey (you) off and kill the towns guard. The entire point of the first set of quest(s) is that you are getting fed up with doing other peoples job, not getting any thanks, ect until they just want unchecked power, going as far as to kill towns guard (Thus a killing machine).

To the rest of your post, that's all nice and well, but it happens **after** you gain initial control over your Dark Side and then the rest you just posting is them dealing with regrets from the past.

After just re-watching that cut scene, the one you mention, it actually seems to be going for a middle ground. The Warrior of Light is not willing to allow Fray (your dark side) gain full control, but instead allows for a bit of him to come out to assist with dealing with the fight that stands before them (his past and his regrets). Probably knowing full well that if they do allow for the full Frey to come out, they would take it too far. Thus the name "Our Compromise". It's to show that you're not gong to take it as far as Fray (Killing a bunch of guards without actual facts or evidence), but you're no longer holding to the past and have gotten over those that you were thinking about over the quest line. It's also a show that you're now resolved to do what would other wise not be 100% moral (Your idealism vs. pragmatism. point of view) as you're now having to kill the npc, though at first you weren't resolved to do so.

"Serve… Save… Slave… Slay… I’ve sins aplenty, aye, but regrets? Not so much. And if she wouldn’t listen to me, the embodiment of good sense and pragmatism, then what hope could you possibly have. A house divided cannot stand, you know. This childish rebellion ends now." is referring to the fact the warrior of light is at war with themselves and is coming to terms with that they may have to cross some lines that is in the gray area.

Fray also says "A compromise? I suppose. Our dear friend did not allow for me to take the reins." -- This line here is showing that we aren't allowing for our full dark side to come out. Why? Because we would kill everyone that we suspect.

And to wrap this up, you still haven't covered the Journal text at the "Our answer" part. Which is the fact that you **wrest control of your soul back**. And at the end it even goes out of the way to tell you that you subdued your Dark Side. - Which to me shows that Fray probably would have slaughtered everyone that appeared to be a threat.

A Dark Knight struggles to keep their darkness in check, only unleashing their Dark Side when needed.

[Absimiliard]

Snip.

Well damn. Finally remembered to check this thread only to find that someone else gave the same reply I would have. Good on ya.

[Acidblood]

Why do people keep saying Storm's Eye is clunky? It might be a bit annoying to get the buff in AoE situations, but there's no clunk about "having to use a different combo ender than your basic one occasionally". Is this about how you can't just immediately double inner chaos into inner release in the opener? Because even DRK wants to use a Souleater combo during its opener before going into Delirium (to have enough Blood for Living Shadow).

Maybe it's only while levelling, but dungeon pulls on WAR just don't flow well... AoE combo (which requires a target and has a directional component) to get aggro, single-target combo for 3 GCDs to get Storm's Eye, finally back to AoE combo / special AoE; and since Storm's Eye only lasts up to 30s it usually falls off before the next pack.

DRK, PLD and GNB are all infinitely smoother in comparison with circular AoEs (that don't require a target), an oGCD AoE (very useful for staggered packs), and freely applicable damage buffs.

Edit:
Not that I want WAR to be yet another PLD clone; however, I do draw a distinction between 'unique' abilities that truly separate classes and abilities that are just worse versions of the 'standard' (with nothing to compensate).

For example:
- Way back when PLD had only Flash (and Circle of Scorn), Overpower was still finicky to use but at least it had the advantage of doing damage... now Overpower is just a flat out worse version of the AoE that all the other Tanks have (even in potency compared to DRK and GNB).
- Similarly for Onslaught, which technically has the advantage of longer range and being available more often, but at 20 gauge cost, a 10s hard cooldown, and half the potency; ouch!
- Storm's Eye is a bit different (being 100% uptime and having no resource cost), but there is no denying that it is more annoying to apply and maintain than Darkside.
- And it is not just WAR; PLD Divine Veil for example is long past due to lose its requirement of needing a heal to proc it (since it is no longer the only Tank party mitigation ability).

DRK is slow as hell now. Our attack speed, our MP gain, it’s all moving at a snails pace. Also I think it’s kinda hard to screw up 1-2-3 then 4 for 10 seconds ever 80 seconds.

In comparison to 4.X DRK, yes, but I wasn't really a fan of the Dark Arts spam style of 4.X DRK (though I know many were, so I would not begrudge its return) ... in either case it's faster than WAR.