Thought about RDM's utility

[Ardox]

Deaths are still gutting the caster's MP and drop the DPS output (dead DPS is no DPS). However, I agree that implementing these changes without balancing them would be an error, but it would make sense to have Healers with less punishing raises.

Indeed, but people aren't going to die for purpose if death penalty is gone just to be raised by someone, so casters MP isn't a issue at all if that sugestion happen.

But there's a huge diference if you die and keep -25% Damage penalty for +105 secs between 5 secs for ress animation without and still doing the same Damage than before when you back. So yeah, deaths would be irrelevant since you was going to come back right after that without any penalty for it, and yeah, that would break the game as well.

You ignored half of my post. My point was: it would not make deaths completely irrelevant but would certainly make it less punishing. There's other ways to balance raises and making Verraise less interesting than healer's raise (by having a worst debuff than healers by example), could give some breathing room for RDM to get more potencies on their attacks..

I'm reacting to the topic (about Verraise balancing), but personally I don't like balancing caster DPS on raising abilities: Raises mitigates the loss in DPS from a death but don't bring anything if nobody dies. It is a good supporting ability, but RDM should be able to shine outside of the cases where the run is going through hell. RDM is a DPS an should be able to do a good job DPSing

[cactuarzzzz]

Thank You very much for your opinions, everyone.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

If RDM gets further focus on its utility, it needs to be utility that helps stop people from dying in the first place.

[Drayos]

If RDM gets further focus on its utility, it needs to be utility that helps stop people from dying in the first place.

The job needs dps buffs instead, it’s utility so far is so powerful it’s a weight on the entire job design.

More needs to go into making RDM wanted in farm groups. It’s place in progression and more are already strong enough.

[Valavaern]

The job needs dps buffs instead, it’s utility so far is so powerful it’s a weight on the entire job design.

That's the excuse that everyone (including the Devs) throw out, but If we want RDM's utility to be a limiter on it's personal DPS, then we need to stop being afraid of its utility.
Verraise and Vercure need to be pre-50 skills.
Embolden needs to affect ALL damage.
Dump Emgagement and replace it with a party shield.
For a DPS boost, give them Enfire and Stonespike, treat them similar to DNC's Dance partner. Problem solved.

[Drayos]

That's the excuse that everyone (including the Devs) throw out, but If we want RDM's utility to be a limiter on it's personal DPS, then we need to stop being afraid of its utility.
Verraise and Vercure need to be pre-50 skills.
Embolden needs to affect ALL damage.
Dump Emgagement and replace it with a party shield.
For a DPS boost, give them Enfire and Stonespike, treat them similar to DNC's Dance partner. Problem solved.

This game isnt built to Support such a Support job. Healers have waay more then enough healing to deal with healing alone, RDMs application to being a Defensive Utility will leave it on the bench. we need to stop being taxed for Verraise and Vercure not increase the quantity of things being taxed. as it stands we'll be the benched caster for the expansion if something doesnt change.

Engagement is Actually needed for RDM Optimisation, it'll be a DPS Nerf to remove it.. why not just have both if they really went this way :P

[Zyneste]

In regards to class balance I always see it like this:

You need to balance all the classes within a role, then you need to balance all the roles that compete with each other (Namely DPS.)

When it comes to offensive balance, the only numbers that need tweaked are the RDPS + PDPS of one member of that role with the RDPS + PDPS of the other members of that role. An okay Example being DNC against MCH (although I would argue that MCH should be a little higher and BRD should be closer to DNC.) The DNC's Raid damage makes up for the MCH's Personal damage.


Where SE starts to go astray in my eyes is why they try to balance Offense + Defense vs Offense + Defense. Classes don't need to completely homogenize, but if a defining feature emerges from the role, then the entire role needs an equivalent. An example being again Shield Shamba and Tactician. They bring that same core universal Defensive buff with a long duration on a 3 minute cool down.

For casters what this means is giving BLM a raise and to do that they need to change it to compensate for infinite BLM mana by removing its MP costs and putting it on the OGCD. This would also be a QoL buff for SMN/RDM, who will no longer lose their Swiftcast or Resource Generation. Limiting it to a 2 minute cool down and adding 2 charges on it would allow casters to support without being broken. Any further support brought by a member needs to be good enough to use, but not so good that it makes the other classes undesirable. Curing Waltz vs No secondary defensive utility on MCH.

"All the casters having raise would make them mandatory!" Well geez I hope so! My second point for balance is that all roles need to have a balance with their competing roles. So all roles should be within a reasonable % of each other at the highest level of play. The party Role bonus needs to be what keeps everyone in a standard comp with a complete 5% bonus. You should want to bring one of each role for this bonus.

TLDR:

SE needs to change the way they balance roles. Core Non-offensive utility needs to be shared amongst the role. PDPS and RDPS should be the only factors in balancing Offense within a role. The party bonus is what should keep all the roles desireable in raids even if their DPS alone are similar, the diverse role choice boosting the party's DPS with its bonus.

[Zyneste]

That's the excuse that everyone (including the Devs) throw out, but If we want RDM's utility to be a limiter on it's personal DPS, then we need to stop being afraid of its utility.
Verraise and Vercure need to be pre-50 skills.
Embolden needs to affect ALL damage.
Dump Emgagement and replace it with a party shield.
For a DPS boost, give them Enfire and Stonespike, treat them similar to DNC's Dance partner. Problem solved.

They should move Engagement to 40 and leave Vercure and Verraise alone. If they want to give us more defensive utility we should get it at 72. We are late bloomers in that respect. I'd happily take a single target ogcd heal like a buffed erase or for Vercure to get a GCD rebate on a cool down.

[Drayos]

They should move Engagement to 40 and leave Vercure and Verraise alone. If they want to give us more defensive utility we should get it at 72. We are late bloomers in that respect. I'd happily take a single target ogcd heal like a buffed erase or for Vercure to get a GCD rebate on a cool down.

tbh, no use having Defensive Utility if ur jobs going to be Rejected from All content Players have any control over. RDMs arent welcome in PFs and as far as i can tell from statics Most Playing RDM Swap to another Caster once they've reached Enraged state to clear on a Faster DPSer.

This game Doesnt support a Concept of a Defensive Utility Support job. to make that sorta Role Mandatory they'd have to nerf healers to require additional Presence, which they wont do because would make RDM a mandatory part of Meta if healers couldnt physically Do their Jobs without Support. Defensive Utility being balanced against Offensive Support in a game which is limited in actually needing the role to begin with will keep RDM forever in its ProgMage Meme State.

Verraise Needs Nerfing down, Its only useful til enrage, once ur team learn fights they stop dying, this runs in DF and PF its Not a Nessicity past the first few tries and its obsilete. Just limit it to a 2 Charge 30 Second CD. being able to Instantly Double Rezz is still a Strength but with a More restricting factor over it, its Use will become less Contraversal.

Theres no reason to balance DPS with Vercure, Its Litterally Taxing in itself, if we are to use Vercure to heal someone we instantly lose 260 Potency. Which is a DPS hit in itself, it wont perform the numbers if its Using its Dual Cast on this Support to begin with.

buff its Potencies, i dont expect a 2700 leap in DPS, but atleast restore us to being 1100 Behind BLM, this was where we were in Stormblood and THere was Never a issue of "RDMS replacing BLM" at most u saw BLMs using RDM during progression nights.. which is still happening, this hasnt fixed that concept, the difference is those who want to roll RDM are Now forced out their Jobs because the only thing u've Stripped is its Capabilities in Farm Raids.

[Zyneste]

tbh, no use having Defensive Utility if ur jobs going to be Rejected from All content Players have any control over. RDMs arent welcome in PFs and as far as i can tell from statics Most Playing RDM Swap to another Caster once they've reached Enraged state to clear on a Faster DPSer.

I already addressed that. All role members should be similar or within reason in Damage output and share the same core defensive utility. Any extra utility needs to be good enough to use, but not so good as to threaten the raid presence of the other same role members. The role party bonus should be what clenches parties having a standard comp.

Balance RDPS vs PDPS. Then Balance Defensive utility across the role. Let the role bonus sort out parties to the standard comp.