Thought about RDM's utility

[Zyneste]

In regards to class balance I always see it like this:

You need to balance all the classes within a role, then you need to balance all the roles that compete with each other (Namely DPS.)

When it comes to offensive balance, the only numbers that need tweaked are the RDPS + PDPS of one member of that role with the RDPS + PDPS of the other members of that role. An okay Example being DNC against MCH (although I would argue that MCH should be a little higher and BRD should be closer to DNC.) The DNC's Raid damage makes up for the MCH's Personal damage.


Where SE starts to go astray in my eyes is why they try to balance Offense + Defense vs Offense + Defense. Classes don't need to completely homogenize, but if a defining feature emerges from the role, then the entire role needs an equivalent. An example being again Shield Shamba and Tactician. They bring that same core universal Defensive buff with a long duration on a 3 minute cool down.

For casters what this means is giving BLM a raise and to do that they need to change it to compensate for infinite BLM mana by removing its MP costs and putting it on the OGCD. This would also be a QoL buff for SMN/RDM, who will no longer lose their Swiftcast or Resource Generation. Limiting it to a 2 minute cool down and adding 2 charges on it would allow casters to support without being broken. Any further support brought by a member needs to be good enough to use, but not so good that it makes the other classes undesirable. Curing Waltz vs No secondary defensive utility on MCH.

"All the casters having raise would make them mandatory!" Well geez I hope so! My second point for balance is that all roles need to have a balance with their competing roles. So all roles should be within a reasonable % of each other at the highest level of play. The party Role bonus needs to be what keeps everyone in a standard comp with a complete 5% bonus. You should want to bring one of each role for this bonus.

TLDR:

SE needs to change the way they balance roles. Core Non-offensive utility needs to be shared amongst the role. PDPS and RDPS should be the only factors in balancing Offense within a role. The party bonus is what should keep all the roles desireable in raids even if their DPS alone are similar, the diverse role choice boosting the party's DPS with its bonus.

[Zyneste]

That's the excuse that everyone (including the Devs) throw out, but If we want RDM's utility to be a limiter on it's personal DPS, then we need to stop being afraid of its utility.
Verraise and Vercure need to be pre-50 skills.
Embolden needs to affect ALL damage.
Dump Emgagement and replace it with a party shield.
For a DPS boost, give them Enfire and Stonespike, treat them similar to DNC's Dance partner. Problem solved.

They should move Engagement to 40 and leave Vercure and Verraise alone. If they want to give us more defensive utility we should get it at 72. We are late bloomers in that respect. I'd happily take a single target ogcd heal like a buffed erase or for Vercure to get a GCD rebate on a cool down.

[Drayos]

They should move Engagement to 40 and leave Vercure and Verraise alone. If they want to give us more defensive utility we should get it at 72. We are late bloomers in that respect. I'd happily take a single target ogcd heal like a buffed erase or for Vercure to get a GCD rebate on a cool down.

tbh, no use having Defensive Utility if ur jobs going to be Rejected from All content Players have any control over. RDMs arent welcome in PFs and as far as i can tell from statics Most Playing RDM Swap to another Caster once they've reached Enraged state to clear on a Faster DPSer.

This game Doesnt support a Concept of a Defensive Utility Support job. to make that sorta Role Mandatory they'd have to nerf healers to require additional Presence, which they wont do because would make RDM a mandatory part of Meta if healers couldnt physically Do their Jobs without Support. Defensive Utility being balanced against Offensive Support in a game which is limited in actually needing the role to begin with will keep RDM forever in its ProgMage Meme State.

Verraise Needs Nerfing down, Its only useful til enrage, once ur team learn fights they stop dying, this runs in DF and PF its Not a Nessicity past the first few tries and its obsilete. Just limit it to a 2 Charge 30 Second CD. being able to Instantly Double Rezz is still a Strength but with a More restricting factor over it, its Use will become less Contraversal.

Theres no reason to balance DPS with Vercure, Its Litterally Taxing in itself, if we are to use Vercure to heal someone we instantly lose 260 Potency. Which is a DPS hit in itself, it wont perform the numbers if its Using its Dual Cast on this Support to begin with.

buff its Potencies, i dont expect a 2700 leap in DPS, but atleast restore us to being 1100 Behind BLM, this was where we were in Stormblood and THere was Never a issue of "RDMS replacing BLM" at most u saw BLMs using RDM during progression nights.. which is still happening, this hasnt fixed that concept, the difference is those who want to roll RDM are Now forced out their Jobs because the only thing u've Stripped is its Capabilities in Farm Raids.

[Zyneste]

tbh, no use having Defensive Utility if ur jobs going to be Rejected from All content Players have any control over. RDMs arent welcome in PFs and as far as i can tell from statics Most Playing RDM Swap to another Caster once they've reached Enraged state to clear on a Faster DPSer.

I already addressed that. All role members should be similar or within reason in Damage output and share the same core defensive utility. Any extra utility needs to be good enough to use, but not so good as to threaten the raid presence of the other same role members. The role party bonus should be what clenches parties having a standard comp.

Balance RDPS vs PDPS. Then Balance Defensive utility across the role. Let the role bonus sort out parties to the standard comp.

[Valavaern]

They should move Engagement to 40 and leave Vercure and Verraise alone.

They should move Engagement to the dumpster; it's only needed because of bad Displacement is. I will never support RDM getting it's raise 52 levels after SMN. If such a big deal is made of Vercure and Verraise being why our personal DPS is so low, then we shouldn't have to wait that long to get them.

If they want to give us more defensive utility we should get it at 72. We are late bloomers in that respect. I'd happily take a single target ogcd heal like a buffed erase or for Vercure to get a GCD rebate on a cool down.

I think 72 would be a good time for something like Verprotect, or Reflect. SMN is pumping out Phoenix-medica every 2ish minutes, and it's a little annoying how much they get in on our utility racket, without paying any of the personal DPS tax~

[Seraphor]

I like the idea of changing Dualcast into 'reduces cast times by 5s'.
This will have no marked effect on its core rotation, but will nerf Verraise into giving it a 5s cast time minimum, and forcing its use with Swiftcast.
This'll help it's 'raise tax' situation, and allow them to increase dps a little or make Embolden affect all damage.

I don't agree raises should be a role skill or given to BLM. It's useless without Swiftcast and Swiftcast is too important to BLM rotation already.

[Drayos]

I already addressed that. All role members should be similar or within reason in Damage output and share the same core defensive utility. Any extra utility needs to be good enough to use, but not so good as to threaten the raid presence of the other same role members. The role party bonus should be what clenches parties having a standard comp.

Balance RDPS vs PDPS. Then Balance Defensive utility across the role. Let the role bonus sort out parties to the standard comp.

If they remove defensive utility from balancing with offensive it’d work, but they seem set on leaving this to exist sadly.

I’m starting to think RDM place is intended, it’s a job which primary use is a progression method for casters. And we are suspose to move onto another caster once that phase has ended.

Seeing verraise come through to the next expansion. And it’s dps taxed by it even harder kinda proves the direction of the job.

I don’t rly understand the concept behind creating a job which isn’t ment to participate in end game. But it would atleast appear that it is intended.

[Sequora]

If they remove defensive utility from balancing with offensive it’d work, but they seem set on leaving this to exist sadly.

I’m starting to think RDM place is intended, it’s a job which primary use is a progression method for casters. And we are suspose to move onto another caster once that phase has ended.

Seeing verraise come through to the next expansion. And it’s dps taxed by it even harder kinda proves the direction of the job.

I don’t rly understand the concept behind creating a job which isn’t ment to participate in end game. But it would atleast appear that it is intended.

No other role work like this. Casters should work like all other DPS classes. I get that you can play whatever role you want, but some groups have a negative stigma against RDM outside of progression.

You either have more personal DPS or utility that raises DPS for the group. You don’t for instance choose DRG for progression because it has a special utility and lower damage and then switch to SAM once your group clears the fight. I think they should switch to the ranged DPS model. Give RDM raid utility that boosts party damage so they can be the DNC of casters. It makes sense. BLM is the MCH with high damage low utility, SMN will be the BRD with medium damage medium utility.

[wereotter]

I\I’m starting to think RDM place is intended, it’s a job which primary use is a progression method for casters. And we are suspose to move onto another caster once that phase has ended.

Seeing verraise come through to the next expansion. And it’s dps taxed by it even harder kinda proves the direction of the job.

I don’t rly understand the concept behind creating a job which isn’t ment to participate in end game. But it would atleast appear that it is intended.

The problem, if this is the case, that they're overlooking is the fact that the three casting jobs value different job sub stats VERY differently. Where a red mage will want to avoid spell speed as much as possible, the stat scales better on both other casting jobs. Which means you have to have player who is proficient in multiple jobs to change once you're on farm, and who has to spend more time gearing up multiple jobs, or you just deal with that player playing a weaker job once you do have the fight cleared.

Either way, this is a poor concept for both players to have, only taking the red mage while you're learning the fight, and for developers if this is indeed what they intended. Though I suspect booting people off red mage is not the intent of the developers, and more likely something that players are pressuring casters to do.

Additionally, it's worth noting that if you do go the route of changing your casting job, you are, in effect, learning the fight twice since you'll have to spend time learning and practicing how the rotation of the other job needs to flow into the mechanics of the fight.

[Lina_Slayer]

The problem, if this is the case, that they're overlooking is the fact that the three casting jobs value different job sub stats VERY differently. Where a red mage will want to avoid spell speed as much as possible, the stat scales better on both other casting jobs. Which means you have to have player who is proficient in multiple jobs to change once you're on farm, and who has to spend more time gearing up multiple jobs, or you just deal with that player playing a weaker job once you do have the fight cleared.

Either way, this is a poor concept for both players to have, only taking the red mage while you're learning the fight, and for developers if this is indeed what they intended. Though I suspect booting people off red mage is not the intent of the developers, and more likely something that players are pressuring casters to do.

Additionally, it's worth noting that if you do go the route of changing your casting job, you are, in effect, learning the fight twice since you'll have to spend time learning and practicing how the rotation of the other job needs to flow into the mechanics of the fight.

To be fair SMN also hates SpS, that class is way too based on double weaves and thus it can easily lead to clipping (not to mention the fact it won't buff oGCDs, making it a subpar stat by default), BLM loves SpS because literally all our damage comes from GCDs, as someone who mained both BLM and WAR, I always wanted something to be done with melds (like if you could meld twice in the same materia slot, but only activate one of the options or something like that) so I could swap jobs easier.

As for the res caster into BLM for kill you are talking about I tried to do it by playing SMN on E3S for progression, but I realised exactly what you are saying, for me it's really important to "map" your GCD usage while learning a fight on a caster, so you know which mechanics you can deal with by just slidecasting and which ones you'll want an instant cast.