DRK do you wish you get Stalwart Soul at LV45 like the rest of the tanks?

[cactuarzzzz]

Using a single target combo is TERRIBLE dps loss when you are fighting a pack of mobs. So yes. Being forced to either: Loose 3gcds of aoe damage on a big pack of mobs OR loose 10% damage buff are both detriments. That means they are bad things you would rather not have to do, but both your options are bad. Compared to say....Drk who GAINS damage from using an AOE OGCD action which ALSO increases future damage by 10%. That would be a win win while war putting up eye (sacrificing aoe for 3 gcds) or forgoing it for the pull are both loose loose.

Yes all the while Leaving 50-55 sec Enc Infuriate, and Berserk-Inner Release out and not taking +20 beastguage per eye combo into account. Drk win win while war puting up eye and lose lose when Enc Infuraite/Berserk IR came up?

[cactuarzzzz]

You get enough MP to use flood doing NOTHING at all passively every 45 seconds. 200 mp per tic. A tick is 3 seconds. You get 1 free flood a minute from blood weapon which means, just using blood weapon and passive regen nets you 7500 mp per minute (and you still have 600 from CS). Maintaining darkside costs 6000 mp/minute. You have no excuse to be unable to maintain darkside except playing really, really, badly.

Notice I said "Edge" and "enough" too? We need more than a "1 Edge every 30 seconds" for boss. It wasn't an excuse because it wasn't just to keep darkside up. It's tiring when I have to deal with someone who love to accuse.

[cactuarzzzz]

Correct. But remember how even WITH eye, war breaks even with Drk? So youre telling me that a properly played warrior can maintain eye just like i said 1 sentence up that a properly played drk can maintain darkside. And just as war can use the last 1-2 mobs to refresh eye, so can drk use a combo on last 1-2 mobs to gain some extra MP to maintain their 10% buff and blood to prep for the next pull. So, its like ive been saying all along, they are roughly equal for dungeon spam unless someone misplays either job badly, which is on them.

Nope, It isn't what you've been saying all along. They aren't equal.
While we debating about aoe for only 2 tanks. Utility and single target dps also play big part in how each tanks can clear and everyone know all tanks aren't equal.

[Izsha]

Yes all the while Leaving 50-55 sec Enc Infuriate, and Berserk-Inner Release out and not taking +20 beastguage per eye combo into account. Drk win win while war puting up eye and lose lose when Enc Infuraite/Berserk IR came up?

Dude. Seriously i included zerk. I included infuriate. I included mp. I included literally everything you keep bringing up in the 1st post where i drew it all out pages ago.

The entire thread is about low level aoes and dark knighrs supposed lack of aoe for low level dungeons and now your talking about inner release which is a lv 70 skill. If the thread was ablut lv 70+ aoe i would have included it in my analysis. I didn't 'leave it out' or forget about it. You have been moving the goalposts with every post you make.

This was a narrow discussion about aoe dps at low levels. Then you accuse me of ignoring defenses. Then single target combos and now lv 70+ skills. If this was a thread about those things i would have brought them up 5 pages ago.

The primary point that you have not grasped is that a number of people have made multiple threads claiming that low level drk aoe is worse than the other tanks without backing it up. Unsubstantiated claims. I provided evidence to show that drks aoe damage isnt actually bad at low levels vs other tanks. That is the only point i have been making and you keep popping back aaying im wrong by falsly saying im ignoring factors that i plainly included in the math. When that fails you move the goal posts to something unrelated to aoe damage at liw levels. When that fails you say i dont play drk to try to discredit me. But none of that actually makes your unsubstantiated claim that drk does poor aoe damage at low levels correct and it doesnt make my math wrong.

The ONLY item that has has been pointed out to be wrong in my initial post is a minor oversight where i calculated steel cyclone/decimate at 1 minute infuriate and i should have put it at 55 seconds as it reduces its own timer. But considering that that only increases potency per second for war by 0.09 potency per second, it does not change the conclusion.

So, unless you actually have any actual evidence, see an error in my math, or can point out a variable i overlooked then we're done here. Im not going to entertain forever changing goal posts or getting into arguments over claims i never made.

Darks aoe damage at low levels is on par with other tanks and does not need to have stalwart soul in the 40s as that would grossly overpower drks aoe damage by a wide margin when it is currently in line with other tanks. For evidence see my page 3 math post.

[cactuarzzzz]

You claim it was about the big pull

This thread has been talking about big dungeon pulls for the entire time.

Now you find it isn't true. You try to change it to "about low level aoes" instead.

The entire thread is about low level aoes and dark knighrs supposed lack of aoe for low level dungeons and now your talking about inner release which is a lv 70 skill. If the thread was ablut lv 70+ aoe i would have included it in my analysis. I didn't 'leave it out' or forget about it. You have been moving the goalposts with every post you make.

But what is this thread all about :

What I want to say : DRK is the slowest among the tanks to clear the pull below lv72 when there's more than 1 pull to clear. So I think it might be better to get Stalwart Soul instead of the Flood of Darkness at lower level and ask DRK if they feel the same.

It have nothing to do with boringness.

You also have already been informed:

*Also, I didn't say that I won't do lower content. I just want DRK to be able to clear it as fast as other tanks*

It isn't only about AOE. It is about clear. AOE Clear is a part of it.

The primary point that you have not grasped is that a number of people have made multiple threads claiming that low level drk aoe is worse than the other tanks without backing it up. Unsubstantiated claims.

Other people are other people. They aren't me. I don't have to answer for anything they have done or would you like to answer for everything other WAR said? It's just an excuse that you need so you can feel justify to post against me.

Tldr: drk damage is perfectly fine. Every tank is slow and boring in low level dungeons.

You claim "Every tank is slow and boring in low level dungeons."

1 Flood cost 3000/10000 MP.

And I play PLD,GNB. They're not slow and boring. I can spam AOE COMBO at no cost and kill all mob that stand in my path easily. Meanwhile DRK below Lv.72 is mp starving.

But when it have been proved otherwise.

I accounted for the mp cost if you read the post. Both in passive regen and from all actions that give mp at those levels. So your point is?

If you think hitting ABABAB is some amazing engaging gameplay drk is missing out on instead of hitting AAAAAA then youre entitled to your opinion. I see no real difference between them. Managing that mp and ogcds on timers is FAR more engaging than having no resources to manage and spamming 2 buttons in sequence for entire dungeons. But again, liking or not liking a playstyle is personal preference. Dps, however, is not an opinion. In this regard tanks are the most balanced they have ever been. You want to talk about trash pull mitigation and subjective 'fun-ness' go right ahead.

You ignored it without acknowledge that You're also entitled to your own opinion and move goal post from balance to only aoe. "This thread has been talking about big dungeon pulls for the entire time" "The entire thread is about low level aoes"

This was a narrow discussion about aoe dps at low levels. Then you accuse me of ignoring defenses. Then single target combos and now lv 70+ skills. If this was a thread about those things i would have brought them up 5 pages ago.

You did brought them up

Tank dps is VERY balanced at all stages right now. Single target. Aoe. While leveling. At cap. This is the most balanced offensive state tanks have ever been in.

[cactuarzzzz]

But none of that actually makes your unsubstantiated claim that drk does poor aoe damage at low levels correct and it doesnt make my math wrong.

The ONLY item that has has been pointed out to be wrong in my initial post is a minor oversight where i calculated steel cyclone/decimate at 1 minute infuriate and i should have put it at 55 seconds as it reduces its own timer. But considering that that only increases potency per second for war by 0.09 potency per second, it does not change the conclusion.

So, its like ive been saying all along, they are roughly equal for dungeon spam unless someone misplays either job badly, which is on them.

You're wrong and quick to assume when you didn't dare to include IR, Enc Infuriate and Vengeance, You don't include the utility and single target dps that make tanks "NOT EQUAL IN DUNGEON SPAM"

Darks aoe damage at low levels is on par with other tanks and does not need to have stalwart soul in the 40s as that would grossly overpower drks aoe damage by a wide margin when it is currently in line with other tanks. For evidence see my page 3 math post.

To top it off. You were so good at analysis thing that you didn't even take a moment to look that I say

So I think it might be better to get Stalwart Soul instead of the Flood of Darkness at lower level .

Which would make DRK not op but suffered aoe dps loss because there's no Flood to use until LV 72.

Ah...If you only you did play DRK like you have claimed [twice?] and not being so overly jealous and paranoid about drk could get something op that WAR didn't get their hand on.

So, unless you actually have any actual evidence, see an error in my math, or can point out a variable i overlooked then we're done here. Im not going to entertain forever changing goal posts or getting into arguments over claims i never made..

Yeah, it's past time you stop haunting this post now. I was beginning to wonder that you might be some kind of a Wraith that need exorcism.

[shao32]

snip

a small tip, if you use the blue "+" on the right down of each post you can chain multiple quotes on a single post, if not you can copy all and edit the 1º one so you fit all in one without need to public multiple ones and bypass the character limitation (edit have no character limitation)^^.

[cactuarzzzz]

a small tip, if you use the blue "+" on the right down of each post you can chain multiple quotes on a single post, if not you can copy all and edit the 1º one so you fit all in one without need to public multiple ones and bypass the character limitation (edit have no character limitation)^^.

Thank You!!

[LichKaiser]

i think every tank suppose to have similar skills at same level like they do now untill they reach lv50, They need just to adjust how Tanks learn similar skills from 51 to 80, this will be a great life improvement, healty for the game and for people who level up different jobs.

[Ahrijlaken]

Newbie DRK here lvl 63 .... on 3 Dummies : Starting by Spaming unleash + flood until you have no mana is the biggest DPS, then it seems that doing 123 combo + flood give better dps than just spaming unleash.

Maybe SE give us Flood at lvl 30 because we are suppose to use 123 combo + flood as our AOE at low lvl.


I Have War and GNB at lvl 60 too and the aoe DPS of all 3 tank look about the same. So if we get unleash+stalward combo at lvl 45 + flood it will out DPS other tank for sure.