So, can we just ban damage meters already.

[Ronduwil]

I completely agree. I'm tired of being made to look like a villain because I'm tired of carrying progressively worse players after 6 years of working to improve myself.

Has it ever occurred to you that the players aren't getting worse, but they just seem that way because you're getting better? Kudos to you for persistently improving yourself, but quit flattering yourself that you're "carrying" everyone. Most of the runs I've seen where a player rage quit the group because they were "tired of carrying the party" (in Wow, that is -- I've never seen that happen in this game) went much more smoothly without a prima donna ruining everyone's good time. If you don't want to "carry" anyone then stick to pre-made groups.

[Hash_Browns]

It won't be a surprise. That's why I said "well-designed." I cleared most of the Heroic raids in the WoW Cataclysm expansion. I'm very familiar with the "everyone needs to maximize their DPS and then some to beat the enrage timers" style of game design. I just think it's crappy. But I didn't think we were discussing high end content here. Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought we were talking about damage meters in the dungeon roulette, not end game raiding. If you're running end game raids with your guild, then of course criticism should be expected, embraced, and encouraged. If you're clearing bosses effortlessly with a bunch of sprouts in the dungeon roulette, however, you just come off like a jerk when you call someone out for under-performing.

My goal when I play is to put the same effort in as I do in high-end raids.

My goal when playing as a DPS is to be top DPS.
My goal when healing is to beat the tanks in damage, while letting no one die, and minimizing overheal.
My goal when tanking is to try and catch upto the DPS in damage, and let aggro never drop while pulling as much as possible.

The problem that is presented to me in low end content is that players that "just want to play for fun, bro, back off" have the mentality that gear levels don't matter, that learning a rotation doesn't matter, that learning, adapting, and playing well doesn't matter. It's a horrible attitude. It has gotten to the point where I have been verbally harrassed for +20 minutes in a MSQ roulette because I wanted to kick someone for being afk for 10 minutes. When I had said I wanted to kick them, I was met with "It's just MSQ, it doesn't matter - we could do this with our eyes closed."

If you have no intention of learning your class. Eventually you are going to tread into the territory of the final dungeons, and people who are looking to get in, and get out are going to kick you because you aren't learning. That's just how it is.

I'm not saying that if you aren't having perfect uptime, or dying in new dungeon that you will be kicked - but people in the game are VERY VERY lazy.

Even in the EX/Savage content I've been in a few horror stories because the people who want to be lazy end up never getting kicked, and think they can pull the same crap in the EX/Savage content.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Has it ever occurred to you that the players aren't getting worse, but they just seem that way because you're getting better? Kudos to you for persistently improving yourself, but quit flattering yourself that you're "carrying" everyone. Most of the runs I've seen where a player rage quit the group because they were "tired of carrying the party" (in Wow, that is -- I've never seen that happen in this game) went much more smoothly without a prima donna ruining everyone's good time. If you don't want to "carry" anyone then stick to pre-made groups.

The previous expansion's later patches have had the pleasure of giving this forum threads of people claiming playing as an alternate character with only 4 buttons to press is too hard. One of them was even a WHM who was having trouble with Y'shtola.

[Alucard135]

If you don't want to "carry" anyone then stick to pre-made groups.

Or tell them that they're making mistakes and explain it, and if they refused or pulled the "you don't pay my sub" card, vote kick them.

[Ronduwil]

And then they get to SB trials and lvl 80 dungeons and keep failing the DPS checks, wiping and failing mechanics because no one called them out for them to clean up their act. They'll carry on blissfully thinking everything's fine.

At that point they'll have a full bar and will likely be running content with their FC. At that point a more experienced member of their FC will work with them to up their game. Their long-term success or failure in the game doesn't depend on the diligence of the level 25 performance policeman in the dungeon roulette.

[Nyvara]

Folks worrying about DPS and carrying people in MSQ dungeons (low level even). Same folks need to get a grip and keep that jive in savage.

To the OP, what I do when I see someone abusing a sprout is a throw out a kick vote for the loud mouth It often goes through and one of the few things I will VTK for. Ain't nobody got time for that abuse.

[Hash_Browns]

If you don't want to "carry" anyone then stick to pre-made groups.

We've almost reached "You don't pay my sub" levels of excuses.

[Komarimono]

At that point they'll have a full bar and will likely be running content with their FC. At that point a more experienced member of their FC will work with them to up their game. Their long-term success or failure in the game doesn't depend on the diligence of the level 25 performance policeman in the dungeon roulette.

you have high expectations of what a Free Company will do for someone. Mine sure as heck won't carry someone who refuses to learn their class, and I'm in a casual one... I even asked a few people I've friended from other servers that I've played with, who added me as a friend due to my playstyle, and they sure as heck aren't in a Free Company that will carry someone.

[Ronduwil]

My goal when I play is to put the same effort in as I do in high-end raids.

My goal when playing as a DPS is to be top DPS.
My goal when healing is to beat the tanks in damage, while letting no one die, and minimizing overheal.
My goal when tanking is to try and catch upto the DPS in damage, and let aggro never drop while pulling as much as possible.

That's commendable, and I applaud you for it. What I don't applaud is expecting everyone else in the game to take it that seriously. The guy who just wants to level his ninja to expedite mat farming for his leatherworking doesn't need lessons from the performance police while running his daily roulette at level 30. Who are you to judge his attitude? You play your way and he'll play his. When this guy wants to run raids with your FC, then by all means lay into him. There's a time and place for criticism.

[CorbinDallas]

Has it ever occurred to you that the players aren't getting worse, but they just seem that way because you're getting better? Kudos to you for persistently improving yourself, but quit flattering yourself that you're "carrying" everyone. Most of the runs I've seen where a player rage quit the group because they were "tired of carrying the party" (in Wow, that is -- I've never seen that happen in this game) went much more smoothly without a prima donna ruining everyone's good time. If you don't want to "carry" anyone then stick to pre-made groups.

No, it's definitely getting worse. Content that the average player was able to complete relatively easily 6 months ago is now almost impossible, namely the Stormblood alliance raids, because people have magically forgotten how to do literally every mechanic in there. People double stack shared damage attacks and wipe groups instead of just running elsewhere and killing themselves without added casualties. They don't even know what half their buttons do and seem incapable of keeping their GCD rolling. They can't tell left from right. They can't beat a super lenient DPS check. They can't do basic actions that you are expected to learn in your first few dungeons.

Let's not even get into the deeper things like healer DPS, because most healers can't and won't learn to heal efficiently even if they don't DPS. Let's use a Regen before the pull is complete. Let's use Medica 2 5 times despite the fact everyone is full health and there has been no raid damage for over a minute, yeah, that happened during the Diabolos door in Dun Scaith.

I could go on and on. Fact is, the game does a really shit job of teaching people to play at an acceptable level and hand holds and coddles you through the entire MSQ and associated content. Then people are suddenly thrown into group content and shocked when they find that they can't do anything and die to every mechanic, because they haven't had to put any more effort than spamming a single button the entire time from 1 to 80. Guess what they do then? They don't communicate or bother to go look up how to better themselves, they think we'll I've got this far by being dead weight, I'll just continue.

I'll stand by this till I'm blue in the face, and I know I'm not the only one who feels anxious going into any form of content without a premade, because these days it's literally a coin flip whether you'll get through or waste your time. Veterans are carrying people left right and centre, only people don't realise it because the game won't show you how crap you are since people are so thin skinned that any and all form of criticism is taken beyond personal and they run and cry to GMs.